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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It seems like everything I come across regarding suppressing the 556 SBR is negative. Damage to the gun, inadequate suppression, major blowback, not being able to get your gas tube off (AAC mount), not to mention the added weight to a little piggy weapon as it is.

I also like the 3 prong hider, but would sacrifice for adequate suppression.

I have a chance to buy another AAC mount for my M4-2000, and put it on my SBR, but I am concerned it's not worth it or will damage my beloved. Is my thinking justified, does it do ok, or is it actually great?

Here's some pics for amusement. That pro point will give way to an Aimpoint Micro one glorious day, but works until then.


 

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I don't think it would be worth it. The barrel on the SBR is shorter than the carbine - this is a plus. The SBR is much louder than the carbine - this is a minus. You put a suppressor on the SBR and you have almost the same length weapon, it isn't much quieter than the carbine, you have more wear and tear on the SBR, the added expense, etc. I think one of the best aspects of the SBR is how cool it looks with the short barrel. You add the suppressor and the look changes.
 

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Slippery Pete said:
It seems like everything I come across regarding suppressing the 556 SBR is negative. Damage to the gun, inadequate suppression, major blowback, not being able to get your gas tube off (AAC mount), not to mention the added weight to a little piggy weapon as it is.
...you can suppress you 556 SBR just fine...however...all things being equal..that is...using the same ammunition...suppressor...mount...enviromental factors such as air density and temperature ....the 556 with the shorter barrel will be louder than a 556 with a longer barrel...even though the "net reduction" in the amplitude of the primary pressure wave may be equal...this is a result of the greater pressure levels exiting the muzzle and vents due to them being closer to the chamber in the 556 with the shorter barrel...

...you won't damage your gun...but you will increase the loads placed upon the weapon...resulting in "slightly" higher levels of stress and the resulting strain upon certain components...reducing their usefull life slightly...

...don't expect "hollywood" quite...it doesn't exist...although you can reduce the sound signature quite a bit when using sub-sonic ammunition...

...here's a linky for you...

... http://www.sigarms556.com/viewtopic.php?t=7050
 

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I went out with a bud this weekend, and we shot his M4 carbine and a little 22 pistol, both with suppressors.

The M4 suppressed was still a loud pop, though substantially less than even a 20" AR, or other guys on the range who were shooting pistols. I'd guess the difference between 556 and the SBR is less than the noise reduction due to a suppressor, so you should have a net gain.

Is it 'worth' it? Dunno, how much is it worth to you to have a suppresed SBR? To Ullie's point, it is still gonna be way louder than it is in the movies.

Now, the little Walther P22 with a can on it and subsonic ammo, that's another story. THat was like in the movies. We had about a dozen guys standing around the range, and when each one of them got a turn to pop a few off, they'd all turn around grinning from eat to ear. That was definitely a sweet setup.

Art
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I've had this M4-2000 on a few different ARs, and it's noticably worth it, IMO. Don't need ears.

However if this will equal shooting from a 16 inch Sig, then I see that as next to nothing at all. And the problem is I'm adding considerable weight and heat.

I guess I have to buy the mount anyway so it might be worth a shot, but it needs to be a considerable difference to beat out the 3 prong hider.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
ullie said:
....the 556 with the shorter barrel will be louder than a 556 with a longer barrel...even though the "net reduction" in the amplitude of the primary pressure wave may be equal...this is a result of the greater pressure levels exiting the muzzle and vents due to them being closer to the chamber in the 556 with the shorter barrel...

Am I reading this right in that the 556 with 10.5 and suppressor attached is still louder than a 16 inch 556 without a suppressor?
 

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Slippery Pete said:
I have a chance to buy another AAC mount for my M4-2000, and put it on my SBR, but I am concerned it's not worth it or will damage my beloved. Is my thinking justified, does it do ok, or is it actually great?
Which is your beloved? the 556 or the m4-2000? :lol:
 

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Slippery Pete said:
ullie said:
....the 556 with the shorter barrel will be louder than a 556 with a longer barrel...even though the "net reduction" in the amplitude of the primary pressure wave may be equal...this is a result of the greater pressure levels exiting the muzzle and vents due to them being closer to the chamber in the 556 with the shorter barrel...

Am I reading this right in that the 556 with 10.5 and suppressor attached is still louder than a 16 inch 556 without a suppressor?
...no...you are not !...you missed this part...

ullie said:
...you can suppress you 556 SBR just fine...however...all things being equal..that is...using the same ammunition...suppressor...mount...enviromental factors such as air density and temperature ....
...now read the entire paragraph...

ullie said:
...you can suppress you 556 SBR just fine...however...all things being equal..that is...using the same ammunition...suppressor...mount...enviromental factors such as air density and temperature ....the 556 with the shorter barrel will be louder than a 556 with a longer barrel...even though the "net reduction" in the amplitude of the primary pressure wave may be equal...this is a result of the greater pressure levels exiting the muzzle and vents due to them being closer to the chamber in the 556 with the shorter barrel...
...some things to consider...

...the "net reduction" in the sound signuture is determined by the overall efficiency of the suppressor...when comparing the efficiency of "any" suppressor to that of another... you should generally look at the "net reduction" in decibles under virtually "controled conditions" if possible...using appropiate sound measuring equiptment...ie...that will accurately be able to measure the amplitude of the "peak" pressure wave emitted from not only the muzzle unsuppressed...but also suppressed...because of the extreamely rapid rise time and short duration of the peak pressure wave...most comparative published "claimed reductions" in the sound signatures are grossly exagerated...another "very important" thing to consider are the tonal qualities of the pressure wave "after" being attenuated by the suppressor...in other words...a suppressor with a net "lessor" reduction in the amplitude of the pressure wave may actually sound more quite than one with a "greater" net reduction because of a shift in frequency...making the "pressure wave"...ie the gunshot... sound less like a "gunshot"...

...in order to gain the greatest reduction in the sound signature of any particular weapon there are dozens of factors to be considered...including the design of the suppressor...and there are many configurations...some work well with lower velosity gases and lessor pressures...others are more effective with high velosity...high pressure gasses...

...something to consider...a reduction of 3 decibles actually "halves" the amount of energy present in the "sound of the gunshot"...likewise...an increase in energy of 3 decibles actually doubles it...so very small numerical depictions may make a tremendous preceptual difference...as will any positive shift in frequency...masking the sound of the gunshot...as will your position relative to the listener since sound travels in waves that decrease in amplitude based on the inverse sqaure of the distance travled....and is also attenuated by your surroundings...ie...such as having the pressure wave bounce back to a "listener"...who precieves the "gunshot" as a single sound...but cumalitively...

...unfortunately...most users simply mount a suppressor onto a weapon without fully understanding the properties of sound...the mechanical advantages or disadvantages of a particular weapon...including the mount...and the circumstances of use...suppressors can be "fun" at the range...but can...if used properly...give the user a tremendous tactical advantage in the field...actually confusing the "listner" as to the origin point of the gunshot ! ...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Nittany Lion said:
Slippery Pete said:
I have a chance to buy another AAC mount for my M4-2000, and put it on my SBR, but I am concerned it's not worth it or will damage my beloved. Is my thinking justified, does it do ok, or is it actually great?
Which is your beloved? the 556 or the m4-2000? :lol:

Ha. The M4-2000 is more of a workhorse that gets way too hot and doesn't like me so it burns me and my crappy gun cases. It's a different color now for some reason too. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for clearing that up Ullie. Very informative and helpful.

I'm going to have to read it a few more times to try and soak it all in.
 

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I'll sum up my take on this topic in the following way:

In July of 2009 our SWAT team (of which I am a member of) was involved in a prolonged exchange of gunfire with a barricaded suspect in Alvin, Texas. We were called in to assist our sister city because the suspect had fired upon patrol officers who were responding to the scene of a shooting where one person had been shot by a lone gunman.

As our team arrived on scene (approximately 45 minutes after the initial shooting..0100hrs), we were immediately met with gunfire from the suspects residence. We quickly set about relieving the patrol officers who had held the perimeter since inception. Approximately 40 minutes after taking a position on the rear of the home my partner and I heard a loud "Pong" sound just off to our left. The sound that we heard was later discovered to be a .45 caliber slug striking the steel overhang that we were positioned beside. Immediately following this, we observed a hand (with gun attached) protrude from the kitchen window of the residence. The "hand" aimed itself towards the react team that was stacked on the D side of the house, facing the front door. My teammate and I reacted at approximately the same time and began putting rounds on the hand. Our issued duty rifle is an 11.5" Colt Commando with an A2 FH. I was kneeling in a position directly over my teammate who was prone with my muzzle approximately 15 inches over, and in front of his head. His muzzle was below, and about 35 inches in front of me. After an exchange of approximately 15 rounds, the suspect withdrew and began screaming wildly as if he had been hit. I, and my teammate were nightblind and our hearing had suffered a substantial drop in ability as a result of the first exchange.

Over a period of 3 hours we had numerous other exchanges of gunfire with the suspect at the windows of the house. Unfortunately, his house was constructed of sand filled cinder block with concrete/fiber board exterior. None of our .223 rounds (Winchester 55 grain ballistic tip) penetrated the walls of the house and the suspect only suffered several minor glancing superficial wounds to his hands. On a positive note, the suspect did eventually stop firing and came out of the house in a "Polish Hostage" type situation where he was duly bean bagged by the react team and taken into custody.

As a result of the lessons learned from this encounter, our Department has now equipped our Colts with YHM Phantom suppressors and our duty round had been changed to 64 grain Speer gold dot (soft point). All things being equal, I think the flash was much worse than the "bang" from the encounter but both proved to be detrimental to our operational ability. I have a Sig 556 SBR (personally owned) that I run my issued Phantom suppressor on from time to time and I can't tell a difference between the commando and the 556 suppressed. I can say that flash on both is completely eliminated and sound is greatly reduced allowing verbal comms to continue while engaging. You can definately appreciate the difference when shooting indoors or on a covered range.

If you need either of those two advantages then by all means suppress away. As Ullie said, you will not achieve "Hollywood" quiet but it will make a huge difference operationally. If you want Hollywood quiet, buy a .22 rifle and Gemtech Outback II.... Shooting sub-sonics it is truly hollywood quiet and a boatload of fun 8)

FWIW
 

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I love shooting suppressed. My SBR has had literally thousands of rounds through it. I even went over 2000rounds without a single cleaning without a single FTF




And I loved my SIG 556 suppressed, but it was a little front heavy.



I plan on getting another one someday.
Phessor 8)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
As an update, I did surpress it. I've put maybe 200 rounds through the can on it. No problems. Also, the Auroras are working great now, I still have to have a smith put the roll pin back into the front screws, (this somehow illudes even my most concetrated efforts) but otherwise they are just what I wanted. I have shot them up to 200 yards on paper, with good results.

 
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