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Discussion Starter #1
Now that the military has dropped the SCAR16, what do you think the upcoming "got to have" weapon will be? Many SCAR16 holders that paid 2500-3000 and up, cant be amused. You can buy a SIG556 for half that.

The Bushmaster ACR got a little flame, then died out. Loads of SCAR's are now popping up at dealers for 2200-2300 and less.. prices will continue to drop as inventory builds. Read that FN is hoping to convert existing 16's targeted for the mil.
 

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Scoom:

The military has not "canceled" the MK16...the article you are referring to that started what has turned out to be an unfounded rumor has been updated, and the military clarified the situation that led to a retraction of the original claims:

http://kitup.military.com/2010/06/socom ... -scar.html

Here is what FN Herstal had to say about the rumor:

"Belgium-based firearms manufacturer FN Herstal hereby refutes the allegations recently found on the web that USSOCOM abandoned the 5.56 version of the SCAR rifle and reconfirms USSOCOM’s decision to acquire the full FN SCAR family of weapons, including the 5.56mm rifle."

Here is FNH-USA's press release on the issue:

http://www.fnhusa.com/le/press/detail.asp?id=87

And here is the latest from the original rumormonger:

http://kitup.military.com/2010/07/scar- ... o-buy.html

The reality is this -- this is a budget cutting cost-control move -- what DOD has done is ordered the SCAR Mk17 since it can be converted to 5.56 readily, but there is a real need for a 7.62 battle rifle replacement for the M14 that has proved to be so effective over in Iraq and moreso in Afghanistan. What USSOCOM did was shift the purchase money over from the 5.56 version to the 7.62 version, since the M4/M16 is deemed adequate enough for use. In short, for the 5.56 rifles, they are making our soldiers make do with what they have, since the cost of replacement SCAR Mk16s was deemed too expensive. And Special Forces needs a 7.62 battle rifle now, so that is what they are buying.

Running two wars is extremely costly -- this is just part of Robert Gates taking a look at the entire military cost structure and demanding greater efficiency and wiser procurement. You should read his recent speeches from May, 2010...it will explain everything that is happening here (directly from the final decisionmaker):

http://www.defense.gov/speeches/speech. ... echid=1467

In short, it should go without saying: don't believe everything you read on the Internet as truth -- consider the source -- and question what authority they have for making the statement.... Most of the time you will find nothing but an unsubstantiated rumor masquerading as the truth....
 

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Clyde said:
In short, it should go without saying: don't believe everything you read on the Internet as truth -- consider the source -- and question what authority they have for making the statement.... Most of the time you will find nothing but an unsubstantiated rumor masquerading as the truth....
...and worse :!:

...ain't this the truth :!:

... :wink:
 

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Re: What will become the next "SCAR" in popularity

scoom said:
what do you think the upcoming "got to have" weapon will be?
...a SCAR...for me anyway...great assualt rifle !

...and arguably the best of the "new breed" of assualt rifles...bar none !

...in my opinion anyway... :?

... :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Re: What will become the next "SCAR" in popularity

ullie said:
scoom said:
what do you think the upcoming "got to have" weapon will be?
...a SCAR...for me anyway...great assualt rifle !

...and arguably the best of the "new breed" of assualt rifles...bar none !

...in my opinion anyway... :?

... :lol:
Thanks, Ullie, been away..
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Clyde, thanks for your response. I did read the "corrected" articles before posting and didnt intend to bring up the issue of why/when/how/what of the reduction in spend.

I was more interested in the fact that SCAR16 will not be used by the military as previously planned (regardless of reason)...

Because of above (again, regardless of reason), the SCAR 16's popularity will be reduced.

This is all I am referring to. Of course FN will issue a statement because the fact of the matter is that the military did in fact "adjust", "cancel", modify the order. (Call it what you want). FN would not issue a press release to refute a rumor, NO, they issue a press release because they dont want customer perception to be altered in the wrong way related to the superiority of the battle rifle, of which they still stand behind. The fact that the SCAR16 was GOING to replace std issue (due to its greatness) was part of the appeal.

It will still be considered a great gun by enthusiasts, of which the SCAR 16 will be just that. A tacticool gun for civilians.

SOCOM wants the 7.62, and now I do too.

Which brings me back to my original post.

and I do agree with you about everything you read on the internet and wanted to tell you I am very savvy about this sort of thing and maybe used a term ("dropped") that was not to your liking, but again, it was a little off-point for you to argue that aspect of my post since the post had more to do with what was the next best thing in rifles ... (7.62 I presume)

and BTW, I have to admit I chuckled a little when you told me not to believe what I read on the internet right after you posted something for me to read on the internet to justify a point of yours...

Laughing is a good thing though... :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
SOCOM doesnt seem to agree with FN on this...

From the originators who broke the story:

SCAR Mk-16 Reverb (To Buy or Not To Buy)

by christian on July 9, 2010

Wow…two full weeks after we broke the news that (officially) US Special Operations Command had canned the Mk-16, the story is still causing ripples across the Internet, in Congress, the services and in industry.

Fervent denials, insults, attaboys and eye-rolls have greeted the story in various corners but for most close observers of the SCAR program, the news was not surprising.

I’m fine with constructive criticism of my stories and was quick to explain where I messed up or was misunderstood.

But as the curiosity of the program changes keep evolving, two days ago the parent company of FNH-USA which has the SCAR contract with SOCOM, issued a release seemingly contradicting our story…(Big props to Thefirearmsblog where I first saw this)

Belgium-based firearms manufacturer FN Herstal hereby refutes the allegations recently found on the web that USSOCOM abandoned the 5.56 version of the SCAR rifle and reconfirms USSOCOM’s decision to acquire the full FN SCAR family of weapons, including the 5.56mm rifle.

But that clearly doesn’t square with what SOCOM told me. Here’s verbatum what SOCOM PAO Maj. Wes Ticer provided for me on June 25:

After completing testing, US Special Operations Command decided to
procure the 7.62 mm Mk 17 rifle, the 40mm Mk 13 grenade launcher and the
Mk 20 Sniper Support rifle variants of the Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle (SCAR) manufactured by FN Herstal. The command will not purchase the 5.56 mm Mk 16. (emphasis added)

Who’s right?

FNH-USA spokeswoman Elaine Golladay suggested we revisit the more detailed July 2 release from the US-based company for a clearer picture of what’s happening…

The issue is whether or not the requirement for a 5.56mm replacement outweighs the numerous other requirements competing for the customers’ limited budget. That is a question that will only be determined by the customer.

So, I went ahead and contacted SOCOM to square the two releases and was told the command hadn’t reversed course…

There are no changes to the information that we previously released to you about USSOCOM plans to acquire the SCAR.

Now look, I understand if we’re splitting hairs here — that what FN Herstal meant to say was that component commands within SOCOM will or may buy the Mk-16 while the overall command, USSOCOM, will not. Or maybe there’s just a translation error. I don’t know.

Suffice it to say that actually nothing has changed — that at least in the customer’s eyes, there’s nothing to “refuteâ€
 

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...what difference does it make if our military adopts the SCAR...you should either purchase one or pass based on it's own merits...and IMO...it's one of the best assualt type rifles available...certainly the best of the "new breed" of assualt rifles...and certainly superior to the M4 / M4A1 as currently fielded...

...just saying...
 

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Re: What will become the next "SCAR" in popularity

scoom said:
ullie said:
scoom said:
what do you think the upcoming "got to have" weapon will be?
...a SCAR...for me anyway...great assualt rifle !

...and arguably the best of the "new breed" of assualt rifles...bar none !

...in my opinion anyway... :?

... :lol:

Call me crazy- but I think the Bull Pups might just be on the creep up! Small platform with a full length barel, and they stay on the lighter side of the scales! That's near impossible to resist & refuse- Thing is is all but one or two fire the 5.56 NATO. Which is good and bad.
I would love to see a FN F2000 or Steyr AUG or better yet a IWI TAVOR rechambered in the 6.8 SPC! Split the difference, because I just think the 7.62 NATO is a bit too large to be in a Bull Pup.
Either way I really do think we're gonna see these lil guys fighting for the USA sometime soon!
Oh- and to answer your question with an actual real gun- I really thought the ACR was gonna be the next gotta have- What stuck me was the base model- which is the only one I have actually seen in stores- is just vanilla in comparisant to the Enhanced Model!
My heart still belongs to my SIG 556!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
ullie said:
...what difference does it make if our military adopts the SCAR...you should either purchase one or pass based on it's own merits...and IMO...it's one of the best assualt type rifles available...certainly the best of the "new breed" of assualt rifles...and certainly superior to the M4 / M4A1 as currently fielded...

...just saying...
Ullie, you are right... it doesnt unless you think along the same lines regarding the ammo used or future parts availability..

but my original intent was not really to focus on the scar being used by the military or not.... it was mentioned in my initial post in passing because what I really wanted to get feedback on was what people think may be the NEXT "scar" (highly popular and hard to get) rifle...
 

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OK- after some more thought, as much as I see Bullpups taking on finally, something tells me the next Popular hard to get Carbine/Rifle is gonna be just that- A carbine or rifle.
SO- here is my new pick for the new/next SCAR 16/17-

Beretta ARX 160 Auto Rifle ! ! ! !

If Beretta ever makes the ARX 160 in a Sporting version-
L :shock: :shock: K OUT!

Damn thing is Lube Free, Ambi Ejection and has No Pins- ya heard me right on that one! Not to mention all the bells and whistles you could ever want on you carbine/rifle. I mean everything is on this ARX! From 3 mag releases to reversable cocking handle to a folding, 4 posotion colapsing stock to redundent controls! Oh and did I mention it was a Beretta?
 

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I have all my rifle needs covered adequately for now, and have no money, but if I wanted to buy a new tacticool rifle, it would be the Kel Tec RFB 308 bullpup, barring any horrible reviews or reports of failures. I wouldnt be surprised if this gun is a huge seller. Kel tec is a 'budget' brand, but plenty of people trust their pistols as carry guns, and the RFB is supposedly made to a much higher standard than any of their other guns.

If money was not an issue it would be the Walther WA 2000, but that is neither new, nor readily available.
 

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Why don't they just use AK-74's in 5.56 and get it over with?
Why don't they just go with the SIG 556 and save our taxpayer $$$$$?
I'm tired of all these over priced plastic guns!
 

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insider said:
Why don't they just use AK-74's in 5.56 and get it over with?
Why don't they just go with the SIG 556 and save our taxpayer $$$$$?
I'm tired of all these over priced plastic guns!
:roll:

Because the AK74 does not comport with the military philosophy of every soldier being a rifleman and a marksman. And the Sig556 will always be a bastardized version of the original Sig 55X series. It's a civilian gun - end of story.

Not to mention, I think the military is looking for caliber modularity, which is the appeal of the MK17 over the 16. Personally, I think that ALL new rifle contracts should be suspended pending the adoption of another caliber. I don't think the 223 should be the assault rifle caliber of choice any more than I think the 308 should be the sniper rifle caliber of choice. We just happen to be stuck with either politicians who don't care or brass that is stuck in the 50's and 60's. If we were stuck in the 40's, we'd have a phenominal caliber in the 30-06 for sniper rifles.

Anyway, to answer the original question - the Keltec RFB. Because it's still relatively rare, it still has a wide appeal. My RFB is causing me to sell my SOCOM. There's nothing my socom could do that my RFB cant do better and with better controls. Aside from the RFB, I think bullpups will be the future trend. The Tavor is rumored to be produced for the US market soon too.
 

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Clyde said:
Scoom:

The military has not "canceled" the MK16...the article you are referring to that started what has turned out to be an unfounded rumor has been updated, and the military clarified the situation that led to a retraction of the original claims:

http://kitup.military.com/2010/06/socom ... -scar.html

Here is what FN Herstal had to say about the rumor:

"Belgium-based firearms manufacturer FN Herstal hereby refutes the allegations recently found on the web that USSOCOM abandoned the 5.56 version of the SCAR rifle and reconfirms USSOCOM’s decision to acquire the full FN SCAR family of weapons, including the 5.56mm rifle."

Here is FNH-USA's press release on the issue:

http://www.fnhusa.com/le/press/detail.asp?id=87

And here is the latest from the original rumormonger:

http://kitup.military.com/2010/07/scar- ... o-buy.html

The reality is this -- this is a budget cutting cost-control move -- what DOD has done is ordered the SCAR Mk17 since it can be converted to 5.56 readily, but there is a real need for a 7.62 battle rifle replacement for the M14 that has proved to be so effective over in Iraq and moreso in Afghanistan. What USSOCOM did was shift the purchase money over from the 5.56 version to the 7.62 version, since the M4/M16 is deemed adequate enough for use. In short, for the 5.56 rifles, they are making our soldiers make do with what they have, since the cost of replacement SCAR Mk16s was deemed too expensive. And Special Forces needs a 7.62 battle rifle now, so that is what they are buying.

Running two wars is extremely costly -- this is just part of Robert Gates taking a look at the entire military cost structure and demanding greater efficiency and wiser procurement. You should read his recent speeches from May, 2010...it will explain everything that is happening here (directly from the final decisionmaker):

http://www.defense.gov/speeches/speech. ... echid=1467

In short, it should go without saying: don't believe everything you read on the Internet as truth -- consider the source -- and question what authority they have for making the statement.... Most of the time you will find nothing but an unsubstantiated rumor masquerading as the truth....
:arrow:

New situation :

They are now accepted and being manufactured.
They are being issued as of this week.
 

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Re: What will become the next "SCAR" in popularity

ullie said:
scoom said:
what do you think the upcoming "got to have" weapon will be?
...a SCAR...for me anyway...great assualt rifle !

...and arguably the best of the "new breed" of assualt rifles...bar none !

...in my opinion anyway... :?

... :lol:
The SCAR is here, the SIGs come tomorrow so the test can't be far away. :lol:
Truthfully I wasn't sure about the SCAR until I started taking it a part and saw all of the little details on every single part, bearing pads, replaceable gas port, a true floating piston system, lets just say I am impressed.
Hopefully the Sig lives up to the AK reliability.
Should be a fun test anyway.
 

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What Sig do you speak of coming tomorrow?
I want a SCAR H!!!!!!!
I handled the SCAR's at the NRA show this year and loved them. I have always been a fan of FN and they did not disappoint with the SCAR either!

I was excited about the ACR's until I handled them at the NRA show.
Too heavy, not very good ergonomics and too short length of pull!

IMHO the SCAR is in a class by itself!
 

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The SCAR.
They may use the 17 more because of Afghanistan but the 16 is still in the mix.
Next for the mil will be caseless ammo.
As far as what the "Tacticool crowd" thinks will be more popular depends on the coolaid.
 

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The next hot item will be the next one featured in "Combat Tactics" weighed down with every accessory possible with its picture taken in the most "tacticool " manner.
 

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moses said:
What Sig do you speak of coming tomorrow?
I want a SCAR H!!!!!!!
I handled the SCAR's at the NRA show this year and loved them. I have always been a fan of FN and they did not disappoint with the SCAR either!

I was excited about the ACR's until I handled them at the NRA show.
Too heavy, not very good ergonomics and too short length of pull!

IMHO the SCAR is in a class by itself!
You're right the SCAR won by a long shot
 
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