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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What is the accuracy difference of the Sig 556 Classic/Swat and a colt m4 and m16? How many yards is the Sig 556 accurate out to and what type of groups are you getting with it? Is it more reliable in a 5 year SHTF situation without cleaning supplies than a DSA FAL?

Can I run an ACOG TA01 NSN that is made for a 14.5 inch colt m4 on a sig 556 rifle without a big accuracy shift? Is the Sig 556 more reliable than a DSA FAL?
http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?partid=142
 

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I can't say the FAL is more reliable than the SIG556 but they are worlds above the M16. There's a FAL on FALfiles that's run 50,000 rounds without cleaning. I'd like to see someone try that torture test with at SIG556.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well how reliable is the Sig 556? I hear that its supposed to be like an AK but I cant find any tests?
 

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My opinion:

Sig is more reliable, but no where near as accurate. BUT, if you keep the M16 clean on a daily basis, well, that's another story.
 

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johnw91498 said:
My opinion:

Sig is more reliable, but no where near as accurate. BUT, if you keep the M16 clean on a daily basis, well, that's another story.
I've found my 556 to be every bit as accurate as my ARs at slow, aimed fire. Rapid fire...the 556 groups open up a bit more but it is still a very respectable performance and more than adequate for a semi-auto clone of a world class assault rifle.
 

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Muad,

Like I said, it's my opinion. My AR-15 inspires confidence in my shooting abilities. I know my AR-15 will perform in a specific fashion as I've trained with it in various configurations for over 20 years. The Sig, on the other hand, has had failures in areas where I've never had problems with the AR.
 

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johnw91498 said:
Muad,

Like I said, it's my opinion. My AR-15 inspires confidence in my shooting abilities. I know my AR-15 will perform in a specific fashion as I've trained with it in various configurations for over 20 years. The Sig, on the other hand, has had failures in areas where I've never had problems with the AR.
can you be more specific in these failures?
 

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johnw91498 said:
Muad,

Like I said, it's my opinion. My AR-15 inspires confidence in my shooting abilities. I know my AR-15 will perform in a specific fashion as I've trained with it in various configurations for over 20 years. The Sig, on the other hand, has had failures in areas where I've never had problems with the AR.
Fair enough. My opinion...

I shot the M16 family professionally for 8 years in the Army. Well, I volunteered to carry SAWs and the Pig because of the confidence it failed to inspire in me. I even lobbied, unsuccessfully, to get a M9 (during prisoner control situations) so I did not have to carry the M16 or M4.

I am a lefty so occasionally I would get brass that missed the deflector and would get hit in the face. This is not even mentioning the gas and powder that got ejected. Extractors, especially in automatic service weapons that have been around for years in the hands of GIs, sometimes break and it happened to me. That open ejection port and the failure made me weary thereafter, when was it going to happen again and could it cause the loss or damage of my right eye?

Granted, I have not had nearly the trigger time on my 556 as I have on the M16 family but these are my opinions so far. My Sig has never thrown brass in my face with over 1K rounds through it already; with my M16/M4 it happened every couple of magazines. The charging operation of the M16 leaves much to be desired. As a lefty, the Sig rules in this department: I simply maintain my cheek weld and aim, remove my non-firing, support hand and charge the bolt. With the M16 you have to actually break cheek weld, lose aim, and remove your firing hand (at least I do). This is regardless of lefty or righty. Also, the Sig seems to burn powder more completely before forcing the action rearwards or the presence of the piston as a block does not allow the gasses and burning residue to fly out of the ejection port as a DI weapon like M16s do. Fire an AR left-handed and you will notice the difference.

I will grant that civilian ARs are superior in machining, tolerances, fit, and finish to military ones; people are willing to pay more for one than the military is per piece in batches so manufacturers to civilians make better rifles and, depending on how much you are willing to pay, use better materials. I concede that I have had no problems with my Stag so we may be talking past each other in that I use my experience with military AR-type rifles as a comparison to what I have had with my civvy 556 rahter than comparing my limited civilian AR experience to what I have had with the 556.

Also, for SHTF situations, the Sig has the adjustable gas system. You can shoot your way out of a situation without having to stop and clean but with a standard DI M16 you either run into problems or have to stop and clean it. After extended firing (and due to environmental fouling) in some situations my M16 began to slow down, it would not close up with enough force and fail to fully strip rounds off the mag and so jam a round at about 45°. While I admit that double-feeds are mainly the fault of the magazine, I also think that the M16s multi-lugged bolt face contributes and the Sig does not have this other contributing factor. It also sometimes did not cycle far enough back to even strip a round; it would simply close on an empty chamber. If this started happening to the Sig you could simply change the gas setting and go about your business rather than performing S.P.O.R.T.S. or "Rack, Tap, Bang" frequently.

That said, I own one Stag lefty carbine and am currently building another full-length one. ARs, in my opinion, are great patrol rifles but not the best combat/assault rifles. They are accurate and so make it easy to place critical shots in areas with lots of innocent bystanders where the likelihood of an extended firefight is low. They will probably not be fired for more than couple of shots and then cleaned, so none of their weaknesses are exposed. They were after all originally purchased by the military for use by Air Force base security and excel in this role. They are light and comfortable for all-day carry and can place those few critical shots easily. This is a great rifle for patrol or SWAT officers who are not likely to experience a shoot-out (stand-off time does not involve shooting) lasting more than a minute or so.

The only reason I would make the AR my SHTF rifle is availability and price of parts. Also, I accept that if the world as we know it ended tomorrow I would not be getting into extended firefights. Under these conditions shooting is the last thing one would want to do and it would mean you would have to exfil the area as quickly as possible after doing so. So, the opinion of the Sig being more robust and reliable and the AR needing more thorough and frequent cleaning are moot; firefights will not be long enough to tax either's reliability and there will be plenty of time to clean weapons. Disregarding this and going on the performance and ergonomics (for me, a lefty) of the two rifles...well, my 556 stays in my closet with a full mag and my AR (soon to be plural) stays in my safe.

Here is a great blog post that sums up my feelings (and goes more into detail about field stripping and cleaning)and has been on the interwebs for a long time: http://www.madogre.com/interviews/Hate_the_AR15.htm

Take it for simply my experience and opinion.
 

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Granted, I have not had nearly the trigger time on my 556 as I have on the M16 family but these are my opinions so far. My Sig has never thrown brass in my face with over 1K rounds through it already; with my M16/M4 it happened every couple of magazines. The charging operation of the M16 leaves much to be desired. As a lefty, the Sig rules in this department: I simply maintain my cheek weld and aim, remove my non-firing, support hand and charge the bolt. With the M16 you have to actually break cheek weld, lose aim, and remove your firing hand (at least I do). This is regardless of lefty or righty. Also, the Sig seems to burn powder more completely before forcing the action rearwards or the presence of the piston as a block does not allow the gasses and burning residue to fly out of the ejection port as a DI weapon like M16s do. Fire an AR left-handed and you will notice the difference.
Both my wife and son are wrong-handed and they, too, like the side mounted charging handle and the vigorous ejection of brass of the Sig. My son was shooting the rifle portion in a local three-gun match and was using his DI AR. He was on crusie control, smooth and steady. Then he lost ALL composure and bearing, slapping at himself around his neck and shoulders. The reason why? A hot piece of brass ejected into his open collar. I might be a bad parent, but I thought it was hysterically funny. Because if you've had any substantial trigger time on an AR/M16 series rifle something similiar has happened to you, regardless of right- or left-handedness.

As to the lack of gas/fouling in the face with the Sig, most piston systems are designed to use only enough gas to push the mass of the op-rod (or equivalent) and bolt group to the rear of the rifle IOT unlock, extract and eject the spent case. It's also pushed far enough to the rear to be able to strip a fresh round from the magazine to re-start the cycle. The rest of the gas is vented out around the barrel or out of the muzzle.

Like many of you, I've carried the M16/M4 into harm's way and been in more than a few hairy furr-balls with it. I found it to be a tool (mostly) adequate to the task. The only caveat - Ya gotta keep it lubed. If I find an AR in my hands when the inevitable zombie apocalypse starts, I wouldn't feel undergunned. I like the AR...but I like the Sig more.
 
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