hey yall, new guy here really need advice trying to make final decision between the scar and sig, i know this topic has many pros and cons of both but i need to know bottom line which one is the best functional weapon? ullie you and i spoke a little about this subject so please chime in thanks lou
scar vs sig
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Ullie will know 10x I will ever know, but to me this is the easiest question on the board, just based on economics. A Sig 556 folder can be had for around $1250+ shipping. You can get a SIG, + nice glass(Aimpoint, Eotech, Leupold) + mount, TROY Buis, + ammo (or keep a few hundred $ in your pcoket) for less than the price of a SCAR at approx $2400-2500. Or just get 2 SIG's and keep one for backup.Lou said:
And never forget, its who is behind the gun and the not gun itself that matters the most.
Hi Lou, and welcome to the site. As far as the Sig v. SCAR quandary goes, the economic argument is hard to ignore. They're both fine pieces that'll give you years of yeoman service. While I don't think the SCAR is the end-all be-all of assault rifles, I will give the edge to it in ergonomics. (Some folks have trouble reaching the mag release of the 556 without altering their grip on the pistol grip) Bottom line: Do what your check book can stand.
Again, welcome to the forum.
Leb
Again, welcome to the forum.
Leb
As an owner of both a 556ER and a SCAR 16s I believe I can speak objectively. I love my Sig. Even after almost 2 full years of ownership the honeymoon ain't over. It gives me a smile everytime I look at it. We all own a Sig, so I won't describe what most of us already know about it. The Sig apprear to win from a strictly economical point. You'll have well over a grand to play with (for optics, ammo and other accessories) compared with a SCAR (which cost me almost $1k more).
Both rifles belong in my collection, but I'll pick the SCAR if I have to choose only one. Fit and finish is superior. There's absolutely no play between upper and lower receiver. The folding stock is well designed and engineered from the get go. My ER don't have a folder, but I've read enough here to know it's an issue. The SCAR's iron sight is dead on with a mechanical zero from the factory. It just needed a couple of elevation clicks. I can't say the same for my Sig whose terrible front sight's windage adjustment is almost at maximum. Need I even mention the flip-up Sig rear sight? The SCAR's balance is also better for prolonged off-hand shooting. You will quickly close that $1k gap with aftermarker BUIS, better folding stock, better rail system, etc. How many of us ditched the fish gill handguard in favor of a Swiss one? How many of us spent hundreds of dollars more to have a more functional set of BUIS? So even the price difference argument goes in favor of the SCAR.
Both rifles belong in my collection, but I'll pick the SCAR if I have to choose only one. Fit and finish is superior. There's absolutely no play between upper and lower receiver. The folding stock is well designed and engineered from the get go. My ER don't have a folder, but I've read enough here to know it's an issue. The SCAR's iron sight is dead on with a mechanical zero from the factory. It just needed a couple of elevation clicks. I can't say the same for my Sig whose terrible front sight's windage adjustment is almost at maximum. Need I even mention the flip-up Sig rear sight? The SCAR's balance is also better for prolonged off-hand shooting. You will quickly close that $1k gap with aftermarker BUIS, better folding stock, better rail system, etc. How many of us ditched the fish gill handguard in favor of a Swiss one? How many of us spent hundreds of dollars more to have a more functional set of BUIS? So even the price difference argument goes in favor of the SCAR.
Like Lebben says, the SCAR is not the be all end all carbine. But I'm so impressed with it that my first .308 auto-loader may well be the 17s when it comes out this summer. Of course, if it comes out at about the same time HK's MR762A1 might have something to say about that.gciverson said:Longrifle
You made me feel I need to buy a SCAR now
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As a guy who gets to the range 1-2 times a month with both guns (my buddy owns the SCAR), I have pretty regular exposure to both. We shoot them both back to back each time.
The SCAR has the best feel/ balance of any high capacity rifle I've picked up. It feels much lighter than its spec sheet would have you guess. The recoil and muzzle hop are almost nonexistent. It seems to be a very reliable rifle as it should be given the extensive T&E it has gone through.
After shooting the SCAR and then putting rounds through a 556 SBR with a Levang flash hider, I found myself wanting the SCAR's flat and low recoil shooting in the Sig. Swapping to the SCAR's muzzle device, the PWS FSC-556, gives you much of what it offers in that regard.
I brought out a new green full length Sig 556 classic (with the PWS FSC-556 on the muzzle) and the first thing that the SCAR's owner said was that it had less recoil than his SCAR. So you can get much of the excellent shooting feel of the SCAR from a 556 but you won't ever get a 556 to feel as light and handy overall.
I'd guess that the SCAR has an edge in accuracy if you shoot for maximum precision at longer ranges. In a 'minute of bad guy' fire fight situation the difference in accuracy wouldn't be noticeable.
Both guns offer the same reliable shooting performance mag after mag. One does it in a less versatile, less handy, slightly less ergonomic and much less expensive package. In fact, you can pick up a classic 556 and get a free 522 with it for increased training time. There is a lot to be said for that.
Looks being subjective, that is still another major difference. The Sig is very conventional looking and the SCAR falls into the latest chunky wondergun profile which seems more love or hate. I personally prefer the chunky looks of the SCAR but looks don't carry much weight for me when I make a decision on a tool like a rifle.
From the latest range trip...
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The SCAR has the best feel/ balance of any high capacity rifle I've picked up. It feels much lighter than its spec sheet would have you guess. The recoil and muzzle hop are almost nonexistent. It seems to be a very reliable rifle as it should be given the extensive T&E it has gone through.
After shooting the SCAR and then putting rounds through a 556 SBR with a Levang flash hider, I found myself wanting the SCAR's flat and low recoil shooting in the Sig. Swapping to the SCAR's muzzle device, the PWS FSC-556, gives you much of what it offers in that regard.
I brought out a new green full length Sig 556 classic (with the PWS FSC-556 on the muzzle) and the first thing that the SCAR's owner said was that it had less recoil than his SCAR. So you can get much of the excellent shooting feel of the SCAR from a 556 but you won't ever get a 556 to feel as light and handy overall.
I'd guess that the SCAR has an edge in accuracy if you shoot for maximum precision at longer ranges. In a 'minute of bad guy' fire fight situation the difference in accuracy wouldn't be noticeable.
Both guns offer the same reliable shooting performance mag after mag. One does it in a less versatile, less handy, slightly less ergonomic and much less expensive package. In fact, you can pick up a classic 556 and get a free 522 with it for increased training time. There is a lot to be said for that.
Looks being subjective, that is still another major difference. The Sig is very conventional looking and the SCAR falls into the latest chunky wondergun profile which seems more love or hate. I personally prefer the chunky looks of the SCAR but looks don't carry much weight for me when I make a decision on a tool like a rifle.
From the latest range trip...
I have to disagree. A SIG Folding ER($1300), SWISS HAND Guards($80), NEW ARMS BUIS($240), a NEW AIMPOINT COMP M4 ($700), LARUE MOUNT($150) and still haven't spent $2500.Longrifle said:
How do you compare a SIG556 those options INCLUDING an AIMPOINT COMP M4S with a LARUE mount and call it equal?
Tell you what, you take your scar with Iron sites, and I'll take the SIG with the AIMPOINT, or maybe a Leupold® Mark 4 4.5-14x40 & Rings in favor of the AIMPOIINT, LARUE and BUIS.
And then you see how equal it is as you hide and hope I run out of ammo.
...the Sig 55x / 556 is the superior weapon...if i had to choose between the two...i would pick a 556...there just aren't any weak points in the entire system...the 556 is accurate...predictably more reliable under adverse conditions than the SCAR...more durable...easier to maintain and PM...in my opinion the 55x series including the improved 556 version with the NATO STANAG magwell along with the FN FNC / AK5 set the benchmark for assualt rifles...Lou said:
...the SCAR...as i see it...is the best of the new breed of assualt rifles...however...it has some inherant design flaws that will affect it's performance and effectiveness under "extended" use in the field...and the unintentional abuse line weapons generally receive...
...i will be very brief and not go into technical details...but...just to mention a few...
...the SCAR uses a multi lugged bolt very similiar to an AR...with a "plunger type" spring loaded ejector in the bolt face...along with a pin...as opposed to the camming lug as found in the 556's bolt and fixed steel ejector intragal to the reciever...
...the "somewhat closed" gas system with a "tappet" like piston directly impacts the carrier off axially...which glides on a steel carriage supported in an aluminum reciever...a better setup than an piston AR...but not optimal...furthermore...the "less than optimal" depth of the piston head is compensated for by using a series of gas rings...acting as piston rings preventing blow by...these need to be kept lubricated...something impossible to do with this setup...the result will be accelerated wear and eventual failure...affecting the reliability of the weapon...eapecially when running on the edge under adverse conditions...
...in my opinion...the polymer lower will develope issues too numerous to mention...that will affect the servicability of the weapon...especially when subjected to extream conditions of heat and long exposure to sunlight... and also when inadvertently exposed to certain solvents...along with the streching and abrading etc. in critical areas from normal use...
...in my opinion the SCAR will run...and run well...but it won't run as well as the Sig when running on the edge...nor will it have an equally long service life...
...nevertheless...i intend on getting one myself...it's on the top of my list...but then i already have two Sigs...
...my advice Lou...for what it worth...is to purchase a basic 556 carbine with the carbine length gas system... only "after" personally inspecting it for any possible issues...and buy the base model...the Sig accessories are...well...you know...don't waste your money...then set it up your way...
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Thig big selling point of the SCAR for the military was the fact that you can quick change different barell lengths and even calibers. Thats what made it the new qhiz bang wonder gun.
Civilians dont have acess to spare or different barrels, and they arne't even making them in different calibers yet.
I'd rather have a 556 and a 308 bolt gun.
Civilians dont have acess to spare or different barrels, and they arne't even making them in different calibers yet.
I'd rather have a 556 and a 308 bolt gun.
This may be true for the military, but it isn't the reason I bought a SCAR. I chose it mainly for the same reason I bought a 556. As a lifelong owner of ARs having other auto-loaders that not only share the same caliber, but also magazines was a huge reason.Buck Rogers said:
I never bought into the whole modularity thing that FN touts for its SCAR or Bushmaster's ACR. If I wanted to change caliber/barrel lenght I have my ARs for that. It makes more sense to me to simply swap out a complete upper with sights already zeroed and it takes mere seconds.
I have the utmost confidence in the 556's operating system. I'm still in awe of as Ullie says, it's "robust" gas system. I just wish Sig would do a better job of quality control. There's no excuse for loose fitting parts and furniture & accessories of questionable quality. There's no sugar coating the fact that the SCAR is expensive. Would I love to have lower cost AND high quality? Absolutely. I'm far from being rich, but I have no problem spending more for superior quality. 8)
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My take on the modularity of all of the new wonderguns is that, in the back of my mind, I would always wonder if the quick change barrel was going to work itself lose on me. I prefer a 'slow change' barrel.
"Buy once, cry once," was how my grandfather always put it. Like Ullie, I had noticed the same things about the platform (particularly the bolt) that's given me pause about purchasing one. As I said in another thread, I'm also waiting to see how FNH will support the rifle. I have the sneaking suspicion (currently unfounded) that they're going to take the HK attitude toward private purchasers of the rifle.
Leb
FN apparently kept the multi-lug bolt design from the AR to maximize accuracy. I have no reason to question FN's engineers and the input of SOCOM's operators. The first thing I noticed about the bolt is how massive the extractor is compared to an AR. I've never had a problem with the AR's bolt, nor do I expect any for the SCAR. In the extremely unlikely event it fails I'll simply pick up my Sig and not miss a beat (or vise versa). I've already installed the charging handle on the right side as I'm used to having it there from the 556.
I really like the SCAR and have the utmost confidence in FN for making a high quality and super reliable robust rifle.
I have a good friend who works at FNH and have had the honor of a full tour, he has told me first hand of all the extensive torture testing they have done on the SCAR and I have 100% confidence that the SCAR is the Best of it's type!
I have a good friend who works at FNH and have had the honor of a full tour, he has told me first hand of all the extensive torture testing they have done on the SCAR and I have 100% confidence that the SCAR is the Best of it's type!
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Perhaps the best way to make a decision would be to go to the scar forum and research the production flaws, warranty claims and customer service experienced by Scar owners.
I wouldn't buy a scar at this time based on the number of factory blemished paint jobs that they continued to sell instead of refinishing. That shows me that they continue to pump shit out without regard for final inspection standards.
I wouldn't buy a scar at this time based on the number of factory blemished paint jobs that they continued to sell instead of refinishing. That shows me that they continue to pump shit out without regard for final inspection standards.
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