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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I live in Washington State and just got off the phone with a local FFL dealer who tells me that he will collect taxes on a gun that is purchases out of state and delivered to WA. I know that Washington has made a big stink about online sales tax but I thought it had some sort of agreement with big businesses to pay taxes so they didn't get sued. I didn't know this extended to my local FFL dealer.

Anyone who lives in WA have any experience with paying sales tax for out of state gun purchases?

EDIT: Well a little digging and I found this:
http://dor.wa.gov/Content/GetAFormOrPub ... sfers.aspx

So it looks like I answered my own question. I guess this means I'll be buying from a local gun shop from now on.
 

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Well, technically, if you buy online and out of state, you're supposed to calculate the use tax and then send it in when you file your taxes.

Sorry, I'm not that honest...
 

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There's nothing honest about taxes john, it just slavery by another name and more effective because people don't even realize it. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I'm sure you'd help a neighbor when they need it and that's a good guy in my book :wink:
 

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It's been a law for years but never enforced. They began enforcing sales tax for FFL purchases about 3 months ago.

It's easy to track and they need the money...
 

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Your dealer can only charge and collect sales tax on the transfer fee, the $50 or whatever he charges to handle the transfer paperwork, because it is your money, not the transferring dealer's, sent to the seller to get the gun. You are supposed to send in the taxes when you file your state taxes or whatever. Since you buy guns (pending paperwork approval by local dealer) from other out of state dealers your local dealer is not actually involved in the sales transaction and so should not be collecting taxes for the sale of a gun.

But, many dealers do collect taxes on the gun sale as well as the transfer fee. I avoid these dealers as I do not know if they are being overly careful ( to the point of being wrong) and collecting the tax and sending it in, or just pocketing that tax amount off the gun. Either way, it seems unfair that they can basically hold your gun hostage once bought because they do not understand they are being paid for some paperwork and a phone call and not actually selling a gun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Muad

This is something different than dealers scamming customers out of a few extra hundred dollars. This is Washington State's doing and both of my local FFLs have confirmed it is true. They call it a "Use Tax" and levy it on anything ought out of state that was not subject to sales tax when purchased.

Now I'm forced to drive at least an hour before I can find any really good gun shop to deal with.
 

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Aubie said:
Muad

This is something different than dealers scamming customers out of a few extra hundred dollars. This is Washington State's doing and both of my local FFLs have confirmed it is true. They call it a "Use Tax" and levy it on anything ought out of state that was not subject to sales tax when purchased.

Now I'm forced to drive at least an hour before I can find any really good gun shop to deal with.
Aubie ,Have you asked you FFL how much to order you a new gun?

I do cost (including shipping) plus 10% plus tax on new firearms. It usually works out to the same cost if you factor in the 2 hour drive to Cabelas from my area. And you are buying local! I am sure someone with a license will work with you. It just take patience, it is not box store shopping.
(note I am just advocating for your local FFL and not me personally)

It is not the way many people are used to doing business but these are strange days.

I hate not being able to do transfers like I used to prior to Jan (when they started enforcing it) not only did the buyer used to get a good deal but it put 25 bucks in my pocket to pay for my licenses, Local/State/Federal.
Now I just pay for my licenses more from spite I have them and I am not giving them up until I am unable to eat because of it.





Here is the official publication from the Washington State Department of Revenue.

http://dor.wa.gov/content/getaformorpub ... sfers.aspx


Interstate transfers of firearms

Washington residents sometimes purchase firearms from out-of-state persons. Because of state and federal laws, a firearm purchased by a Washington resident must be sent from the out-of state person to a federally licensed gun store located in Washington State.

Once the Washington gun dealer has conducted the required background checks the dealer will transfer the firearm to the Washington resident.

The following information provides instructions for the taxability of such transfers.
Is the transfer of a firearm subject to tax?

In an interstate transfer of firearms the Washington gun dealer is required to collect use tax from the Washington resident on the purchase price of the firearm. Use tax is collected from the Washington customer at the time the customer takes possession of the firearm. Use tax is collected on the total selling price, including freight and/or delivery charges and other amounts added, such a an amount for insurance coverage.

If the selling price is not evident, it is up to the gun dealer to obtain this price by either requiring the purchaser to show the purchase price or to obtain that information from the out-of-state dealer. If, for whatever reason, the dealer is still unable to obtain the original purchase price, RCW 82.08.010 provides that the fair market value shall be used. It is the responsibility of the Washington gun dealer to determine the price in order to report and pay the use tax due.

If the firearm is obtained by gift, the instate dealer is obligated to collect use tax on the fair market value of the firearm, unless the receiving person can document that the prior owner had paid retail sales or use tax on the firearm. RCW 82.12.020(3).

However, neither sales tax nor use tax applies on the service charge for processing the required Federal and State forms and contacting the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) when the fee is stated separately from the selling price of the firearm and freight and/or delivery charges, insurance, etc.
How are these transactions reported on the Excise Tax Return?

When completing the Excise Tax Return the gross selling price of the firearm is reported under the use tax section of the tax return. B&O tax is not due in this case.

On a gifted firearm, the instate dealer is to report the transaction under the use tax section of the tax return. B&O tax is not due in this case.

The fee received (when separately stated on the purchase invoice) for the transfer service is reported under the service and other activities B&O tax classification. Sales tax is not collected on this transaction.
Applicable law

RCW 82.12.040(1) states:

Every person who maintains in this state a place of business or a stock of goods, or engages in business activities within this state, shall obtain from the department a certificate of registration, and shall, at the time of making sales of tangible personal property, extended warranties, or sales of any service defined as a retail sale in RCW 82.04.050 (2)(a) or (3)(a), or making transfers of either possession or title, or both, of tangible personal property for use in this state, collect from the purchasers or transferees the tax imposed under this chapter. The tax to be collected under this section shall be in an amount equal to the purchase price multiplied by the rate in effect for the retail sales tax under RCW 82.08.020. (Emphasis added).






The Wa Dept of Revenue decided to
 

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Aubie said:
Muad

This is something different than dealers scamming customers out of a few extra hundred dollars. This is Washington State's doing and both of my local FFLs have confirmed it is true. They call it a "Use Tax" and levy it on anything ought out of state that was not subject to sales tax when purchased.

Now I'm forced to drive at least an hour before I can find any really good gun shop to deal with.
I thought it was illegal to charge taxes on "imports" between states. It was my belief that states finally got their cut of taxes when the item imported was bought, presumably by a wholesaler or the importer and again at the retail level. Of course, buying online bypasses both of these steps unless the shiiping companies are co-opted and become customs enforcement agencies. It seems preposterous that they can simply charge a tax on an item because it crosses state lines.

This sucks. Because after reading up on the problem, Washington will charge the "use tax" on anything if bought at a lower tax rate than in Washington. So, you can not shop around for lower tax rates. You could find someone that charges higher tax rates (but still amounts to lower than the state tax rate and the use tax combined), make sure they collect the tax in their locality, and then either get your transferring dealer to not charge you the Washington taxes (more likely they will charge it to cover their own asses) or get it back when you use it as a deduction when filing state income taxes.
 
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