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I am reading all of these threads and I have a pretty simple but also a question that will get alot of different responses. How far out do you think the 556 can shoot accurately? Some say 600 yards, other say 1000. That is a big difference. How fast can you throw 30 rounds into that same area?
And by accuratley I mean making groups that are within like a 6"diameter circle.
 

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i went last saturday and i was putting rounds on paper at 300 yrds w/ maybe 10 mph wind coming from 4oclock. bout 7" groups, basically all over the place, same outcome w/ 55 62 69 gr rounds, didnt even try farther out after i saw 300 yrds holes.

the problem with .223 and range is how quick the bullet drops, the small size of the bullets, basically if you had a round that dropped the same everytime and you figure out that drop perfectly then you could hit something 2 miles away but the variable is so high past 500 yrds that they are almost luck shots w/ just "normal" rounds and normal ability is what i have determined.

i think its something like 48" drop at 600 yrds, so in reality you'd be shooting 48" over the target and hoping the bullets falls perfect and hits the bullseye, doesn't seem that easy.

its not impossible but consistant groups at 600 w/ sig seems a lil far fetched from what ive read. takes patience and practice to find the right round, a good day for shooting, im sure theres guys that get 6" groups though at 600. pros that shoot rounds that cost 1.25/ea. the issue w/ cheaper ammo is that it wont all shoot the same, so how do you zero at 600 w/ a different variation of drop, even windage w/ every round, kinda makes it hard.

this was as fast i could target and shoot at 100 yrds w/ 55gr winchester, bipod, it was pretty quick, i dont really lose site picture w/ sig. would be same rate at 600 yrds if you can keep site picture but much wider area, those 2 black dots was "too fast"

 

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There are very very few semi autos that will shoot 6" groups at 1000 yards, if any. That is .6MOA. .6MOA at 100 yards is impressive from just about any semi auto (even AR15s) at 1000 yards its just about unheard of, at least with any consistency. I really really doubt very many people will ever be a good enough shot to need that.

18" at 600 yards is 3MOA, and is not unreasonable. It is also roughly the size of a human torso, or for that matter, a whitetail deer.

You really think you can shoot better than that?


I have recently been messing around with trying to shoot my sig at 700+yards. Its fun, its novel, and its cheaper than shooting 308, but no matter how good you are, thats just not what 223 was designed for. The rifle will shoot on target, till the wind changes the tiniest amount, then its off by feet.

My sig will hold sub 2moa out to 300 yards. Not sure from 300-600, maybe around 2.5 if I do my part. That is head shots out to 400 yards, easy torso shots out to 600+ if you can dope the wind right. If you're thinking suppression fire, I can easily get all my shots close enough to the target that anything with any sense would keep its head down, out to 700+ yards.


I have a FAL and a 308 bolt gun for shooting past 500. Only reason I'm even trying this with the sig is because I dont have the money to put an optic on either of those rifles just yet, and 223 ammo isnt THAT expensive compared to match grade 308.
 

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Buck Rogers said:
My sig will hold sub 2moa out to 300 yards. Not sure from 300-600, maybe around 2.5 if I do my part.
Even that is pretty impressive. I recently went to 300 yard range at a friend's ranch. He had a 12 inch metal target at 300.

With 4x ACOG, I was able to hit about 75% of time, with various 55g ammo, with bench rest. If we assume that is 16 inch grouping, I guess I am 5moa (16/3) or about half as good as you. I always considered myself a good shot, maybe I need more expensive ammo to get 6 inch grouping at 300 yards. Heck, 4x isn't that powerful and until I read this I was pretty happy with my 300 yard results.
 

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goo said:
Buck Rogers said:
My sig will hold sub 2moa out to 300 yards. Not sure from 300-600, maybe around 2.5 if I do my part.
Even that is pretty impressive. I recently went to 300 yard range at a friend's ranch. He had a 12 inch metal target at 300.

With 4x ACOG, I was able to hit about 75% of time, with various 55g ammo, with bench rest. If we assume that is 16 inch grouping, I guess I am 5moa (16/3) or about half as good as you. I always considered myself a good shot, maybe I need more expensive ammo to get sub-6 inch grouping at 300 yards. Heck, 4x isn't that powerful and until I read this I was pretty happy with my 300 yard results.
 

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Even with rather heavy 64grn bullet at a smoking 3000fps (24" barrel), with a muzzle energy of 1250ft/lbs, doing much more than punching holes in paper is a bit questionable.

You lose about 200ft/lbs of energy for every 100yards, so at 1000 yards, you have only 150ft/lbs of that original 1250.

A 10mph crosswind will put you off by 29.1" at 500yds and 141" at 1000yards.

Keep in mind that a 16" barreled SIG556 is going to start off quite a bit slower, too.

So, while I like to try it on paper as an exercise, I don't expect great results on badguys.
 

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How far one can accurately shoot a 5.56 is relative to the shooters ability. I know of match shooters that consistently shoot 1000yrds with an AR. If you know your holds and your ammo and can call the wind, a man size target at that range (if you can see it) is very doable. I haven't shot my 556 more than 500yrds for accuracy do to the range limit where I shoot. I know for a fact, with no wind I can shoot a 8" dinner plate 10/10 with 55gr or 75gr bullets, supported either from a bench or in the prone, with a 4x optic, 8/10 with irons. As far as the hold over for 600yds, 48" seems quite low for 55gr bullet, 60" seems more like it. Get yourself an Anemometer, and some good data for your specific round or better yet and iPhone or Droid phone with the Shooter App. Excercising good fundamentals and these tools you will be amazed how profitient you can be at distance with a 556. Good luck and have fun :wink:
 

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If your shooting distance the bullet drop is not the issue. Its wind effect. This is why I and service rifle competitors shoot 80 grain Sierra's at 600 yards. Its the wind drift and your ability to over come it for high scores and good groups. I have fired solid 95~95's (scores) at 600 yards and currently ranked master / expert classification.

The old saying you win at 200 offhand and loose at 600 is very true. You will pick up points with a good offhand score and loose them with conditions at 600.

I have never fired my Sig at those ranges. I leave that to my Krieger barreled free floated AR with Jewell trigger. My Sig shoots well for a service grade rifle. If you want to shoot better practice and learn about conditions and have fun.
 

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goo said:
Buck Rogers said:
My sig will hold sub 2moa out to 300 yards. Not sure from 300-600, maybe around 2.5 if I do my part.
Even that is pretty impressive. I recently went to 300 yard range at a friend's ranch. He had a 12 inch metal target at 300.

With 4x ACOG, I was able to hit about 75% of time, with various 55g ammo, with bench rest. If we assume that is 16 inch grouping, I guess I am 5moa (16/3) or about half as good as you. I always considered myself a good shot, maybe I need more expensive ammo to get 6 inch grouping at 300 yards. Heck, 4x isn't that powerful and until I read this I was pretty happy with my 300 yard results.
I can tell you a higher powered optic might make a difference once you start getting out to 200+. I have a 2.5-10X on my rifle, I can see clay pigeons well enough to shoot them at 300, probably even 350 or 400, but by then the rifle isnt accurate enough to hit that small of a target reliably.

Zeus said:
How far one can accurately shoot a 5.56 is relative to the shooters ability. I know of match shooters that consistently shoot 1000yrds with an AR. If you know your holds and your ammo and can call the wind, a man size target at that range (if you can see it) is very doable. I haven't shot my 556 more than 500yrds for accuracy do to the range limit where I shoot. I know for a fact, with no wind I can shoot a 8" dinner plate 10/10 with 55gr or 75gr bullets, supported either from a bench or in the prone, with a 4x optic, 8/10 with irons. As far as the hold over for 600yds, 48" seems quite low for 55gr bullet, 60" seems more like it. Get yourself an Anemometer, and some good data for your specific round or better yet and iPhone or Droid phone with the Shooter App. Excercising good fundamentals and these tools you will be amazed how profitient you can be at distance with a 556. Good luck and have fun :wink:
I was recently shooting at around 750 yards. My rifle is zeroed for 200. I was holding over to the first really big line on the IOR mp-8 reticle. This is a mildot based reticle and that hold over is equivalent to the very bottom dot on a mildot reticle. This was with 55gr Fiocchi FMJs.

jkh62 said:
If your shooting distance the bullet drop is not the issue. Its wind effect. This is why I and service rifle competitors shoot 80 grain Sierra's at 600 yards. Its the wind drift and your ability to over come it for high scores and good groups. I have fired solid 95~95's (scores) at 600 yards and currently ranked master / expert classification.

The old saying you win at 200 offhand and loose at 600 is very true. You will pick up points with a good offhand score and loose them with conditions at 600.

I have never fired my Sig at those ranges. I leave that to my Krieger barreled free floated AR with Jewell trigger. My Sig shoots well for a service grade rifle. If you want to shoot better practice and learn about conditions and have fun.
Do you have a suggestion for a good book that would help me learn to calculate my dope for wind and bullet drop? With 223 and 308 would be great.

I am too broke to get an iphone or droid just to run one app on it for shooting as Zues suggested, and I KNOW people learned to do this long before such things were invented.

Also, I need a good laser rangefinder, if anyone has any suggestions. Something cheap that will work out to 1000 yards, cus someday, I tell ya, I WILL be shooting at that distance.
 
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