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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Law enforcement and military officials were keen to play down the presence of Polish troops during the recent Operation Vigilant Guard exercises in Chicago, but claims that the foreign personnel were there merely as “observersâ€
 

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Absolute rubbish.

I want the time I spent reading that article back.

FYI, Toyota Park is 5 miles from where I live. It is in Cook County, which arguably has the most restrictive gun laws in the country (per the law you are to be fingerprinted and investigated by the attorney general each time you purchase a firearm or do an FFL transfer). Why would the crooks running Illinois need to involve a foreign military?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
There is tons of video including comments from the folks involved in running the drills. Many National Guard units across have been teamed up with various foreign military units to cross train (for lack of a better term). My question is why we seem to be most interested in training them in Martial Law scenario law enforcement and weapons search and seizures.

When I post the articles, it is not to demonize the military or law enforcement, we KNOW that those are the good guys, and most of them are squared away. But we DO need to talk to military and law enforcement folks that we share our lives with to make sure that they understand that a compromised Congress, Judicial, and/or Executive branch may attempt to take advantage of a crisis scenario in an attempt to get rid of pesky obstacles such as gun ownership and that damn piece of paper called the Constitution that keeps the elite from having Godlike power over our lives.

The laws are already in place to allow foreign troops to be utilized on US soil under a wide variety of situations. Imagine you were in a "Katrina style" gun confiscation scenario where instead of Police or National Guard units showing up at your door, some Eastern European troops show up to search your house. Historically this is the way that most gun seizures have happened in various parts of the world. If you were sent to Poland and told to go house to house and seize weapons, you would follow orders, wouldn't you? I would. How about if you were sent to your own neighborhood? Probably not, huh?
 

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easy-v said:
Absolute rubbish.

I want the time I spent reading that article back.

FYI, Toyota Park is 5 miles from where I live. It is in Cook County, which arguably has the most restrictive gun laws in the country (per the law you are to be fingerprinted and investigated by the attorney general each time you purchase a firearm or do an FFL transfer). Why would the crooks running Illinois need to involve a foreign military?
Agreed. Morons. We do the same type of mil-to-mil training in many parts of the world. When was the last time you saw Ethiopian, Djiboutians, Nigerian, Colombian, Dutch , etc, troops here? Well, we've done that described above, and much more, in all of those countries, and that's just the ones I could recount of top of my head (yes, I personally saw it in Holland right before Desert Storm). Are we preparing them for the same laughable excuse ( "preparing Americans to accept the sight of foreign troops conducting law enforcement duties." or in reverse, preparing foreigners to accept the sight of US troops conducting law enforcement)?

As far as the same training not taking place in Poland, that's irrelevant. First, we want to train them to our standards, so what better place to do it than here. Second, the corollary, is that regardless of where the training takes place, the personal and institutional contacts, the familiarity with each other's methods, all of that is to our mutual benefit.

The only mildly interesting thing about the article is that the American troops are listed as ANG.
 

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Boy Scouts are being trained to disarm veterans? WTF? Boy Scouts are like 13 years old. The only ones who stay in much longer than that are the ones that have developmental issues. Who writes this crap?

Now Girl Scouts, them I fear ...
 

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7art said:
Boy Scouts are being trained to disarm veterans? WTF? Boy Scouts are like 13 years old. The only ones who stay in much longer than that are the ones that have developmental issues. Who writes this crap?

Now Girl Scouts, them I fear ...
ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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wow thats...um... I thought my tinfoil hat was on too tight...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Are we preparing them for the same laughable excuse ( "preparing Americans to accept the sight of foreign troops conducting law enforcement duties." or in reverse, preparing foreigners to accept the sight of US troops conducting law enforcement)?
Among other things they trained to disarm people during a "civil disturbance". Fox23 in New York recently ran a video report in which they state that the National Guard there has assisted in more than 2000 arrests so far.

Boy Scouts are being trained to disarm veterans? WTF? Boy Scouts are like 13 years old. The only ones who stay in much longer than that are the ones that have developmental issues. Who writes this crap?



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html

Get a good look at that picture. Are you a Veteran? Do you own guns? Are you unhappy with the way the government is being run? Do you understand why Hitler formed the Hitler Youth? Did you know that he touted that these boys would become the MOST loyal of all his men? Are you aware that about the ONLY surviving participants from the Third Reich who still publicly defend it's actions were HitlerJugend? Do you know why every communist dictator thought that the single most important goal was to infiltrate educational institutions and to take control of schools curriculum?

This isn't what I learned in the Scouts. I learned that veterans were heroes to be honored, celebrated, and respected.
 

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[quote="Trey73"

This isn't what I learned in the Scouts. I learned that veterans were heroes to be honored, celebrated, and respected.[/quote]

I reread the article 3 times. Disarming and dishonoring veterans is not what they are being showed. I see this training more as giving them a taste of adventure and goals to stay in school and work hard, so as to become part of law enforcement.

Now, you may chose to synthesize this article and other articles to come to the conclusion that they are trained to become the new HJ. I can respect your right to reach any conclusion you see fit, but I'm reminded of my daughter when she insists on putting puzzle pieces together the way she wants them to go as opposed to where they really go.

Incidentally, the Army has similar programs, like the mobile station that goes to airshows and where youths are given a taste of military life.
 

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Those are not Boyscouts.

Those are CBP/Border Patrol Explorers (the image is titled "explorer14'). They are practicing for a competition between other explorer units.

I've seen this training many times. The Explorers aren't brainwashed Hitler Youth types - they're kids growing up in a rough border town, looking for an extracurricular activity that doesn't get them into trouble, unlike many of their smuggling classmates.
 

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Destructo6 said:
Those are not Boyscouts.

Those are CBP/Border Patrol Explorers (the image is titled "explorer14'). They are practicing for a competition between other explorer units.

I've seen this training many times. The Explorers aren't brainwashed Hitler Youth types - they're kids growing up in a rough border town, looking for an extracurricular activity that doesn't get them into trouble, unlike many of their smuggling classmates.
Reread the article. Quite clearly it states that the Explorers are part of the Scouts. Clearly the goals of the Explorers are similar to JROTC in that the kids get an insiders view of Military/LE fields.
[Another way of looking at it: "Did I just get my ass kicked by LAPD or LA County Sheriff's?" Does it really matter? :) ]

"The Explorers program, a coeducational affiliate of the Boy Scouts of America that began 60 years ago, is training thousands of young people in skills used to confront terrorism, illegal immigration and escalating border violence — an intense ratcheting up of one of the group’s longtime missions to prepare youths for more traditional jobs as police officers and firefighters."

As a wargamer, I fully appreciate where Trey has connected the dots. It would seem like a good scenario to chart out a what-if scenario where a group of patriots need to be disarmed by the gov and they would choose minimize the loss of life. Could they have a bunch of kids do the work? Would vets fire on the children or would they surrender before then because of the distaste of prolicide?

I doubt very seriously that this would ever get past the what-if stage. Seeing a bunch of vets turned into embers a la Waco would likely be a lot more sellable on the 6PM news than using kids as a SWAT team. Between the hype of PTSD and media's distaste of conservative institutions, they would be happy to paint the picture of disgruntled vets that couldn't adjust after their time "over there".
 

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Again, they are not Boyscouts. If they are affiliates, that affiliation is extremely minor. From the CBP Explorer Website:
Be an Explorer
With the CBP Law Enforcement Explorer Program

(09/21/2007)
Explorer Application

Customs and Border Protection (CBP) is committed to the partnership between law enforcement and America's youth. CBP Explorer Program is your bridge to one of the most challenging and exciting missions in law enforcement today - the job of serving as the guardians of our nation's borders, America's frontline.

With so many unique careers under one agency, you'll have the chance to experience a wide range of law enforcement activities and choose the one that's right for you. I want to extend my personal invitation to you to take part in the CBP mission as an active CBP Explorer. Come join a great program that offers you the chance to work in an exciting environment and enjoy exceptional educational benefits..

If you have any questions about CBP Explorer Program, please contact your local Post Advisor. We look forward to having you on our team.

Facts about the Program
The Explorer Program offers opportunities in character building, good citizenship, and fitness for young men and women ages 14 through 21.

Law Enforcement Explorer posts offer programs in law enforcement and criminal justice, which provide Explorers with practical training and hands-on experience in those areas.

The CBP Law Enforcement Explorer Program provides opportunities for Explorers to participate in federal enforcement-related activities within the CBP. CBP has posts both at ports of entry and at Border Patrol sectors.

Training
When accepted into the program, an Explorer will receive extensive training and on the job experience to help prepare them for a career in Law Enforcement.

Program Activities
As an Explorer, you will be able to:

Assist with passenger processing and crowd control at airports and seaports
Observe and assist with surveillance operations
Observe vessel searches
Take field trips
Attend the Law Enforcement Explorer Conference
Participate in other Explorer Programs

Explorers pose following the National Law Enforcement Explorers Conference at the University of Maryland, Baltimore.

How the Explorer Program Benefits You and CBP
If accepted into the Explorer Program, you will gain:

Exposure to federal law enforcement careers and professionals
Exposure to the unique aspects of the CBP law enforcement system
Education, training, and a knowledge of career requirements for CBP
Opportunities to develop self-confidence and self-discipline
Help in establishing and achieving educational and other self-improvement goals
Scholarship opportunities from several federal law enforcement agencies
At the same time, if you are accepted into the program, you will be able to share your strengths and experience by:

Giving CBP personnel the opportunity to get to know their community's young people by sharing common interest
Helping CBP to identify potential law-enforcement career candidates
Involving young people in activities that help increase the effectiveness of CBP's own personnel and help accomplish the CBP mission

Explorer Application

The Application Process
To be an Explorer, you must:

Be between the ages of 14 and 21
Be in high school or college
Maintain at least a "C" grade average
Obtain parent's or guardian's consent
Have an interest in law enforcement
If you are interested in becoming a CBP Explorer, or in learning more about the program, complete the information below, and mail it to the Customs and Border Protection Explorer Program Post Advisor located in your state.

Yes, I'm interested in becoming a CBP Explorer.

Full Name: ______________________________________________

Birth Date (include month, day, year): _____________________

Street Address: __________________________________________

Apt.# _______ City_________________________ State _________

Zip Code: ______________

Phone # (include area code): (_______) ____________________

School: __________________________________ Grade: ________
 

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Destructo6 said:
Again, they are not Boyscouts. If they are affiliates, that affiliation is extremely minor. From the CBP Explorer Website:
Be an Explorer
With the CBP Law Enforcement Explorer Program
I am not quite sure what point you are making with disassociating scouts with the explorer programs. It would be a logical error to use the lack of specific mention of a relationship on an application with the absence of a relationship.

The Wiki article on this states that the explorers originated from a scout program for older boys. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploring_ ... g_for_Life)

You also stated earlier that they are just looking for an extracurricular activity to keep them out of trouble. I am alarmed that we would offer professionalized introductory courses in arrests, take-downs and whatever else requires the use of automatic weapons to youth that need something to do as an alternative to criminalized michief.
 

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Phazuka said:
the tinfoil is quite strong in this thread. :roll:
Off the charts.

The funny thing is, the Boy Scout origin is also tied to the idea of raising children and giving them skills of use in adult life. And yes, the Boy Scouts started with a decidedly militaristic approach, latter watered down. The goal? The defense of the Empire...

Baden-Powell was an Army General that saw a need to train youths for military service. Boy Scout training was based upon military training ("Aids to Scouting" apparently was a military training manual before there was even a Boy Scouts organization), was influenced by other para- and pre-military organizations (e.g. Cadet Corps) and even the name Scout was derived from military use. Add a uniform, a salute vaguely reminiscent of military salutes, an oath to do his duty to God and country, and what do you have?...

http://www.netpages.free-online.co.uk/sha/origins.htm
http://www.wisedude.com/misc/scouts.htm
 

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You also stated earlier that they are just looking for an extracurricular activity to keep them out of trouble. I am alarmed that we would offer professionalized introductory courses in arrests, take-downs and whatever else requires the use of automatic weapons to youth that need something to do as an alternative to criminalized michief.
You've apparently never lived or worked in a border town.

And I've never seen the Explorers handle automatic weapons, let alone fire them. Every time I've seen them train, they used red guns.
 
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