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Buy the SIG 556 SBR?

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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, I must have contracted spring fever or something. I already own three SIG 556s (I know, I know -- there appears to be no cure, but I like it...). 8)

So I run across a NIB SIG 556 SBR for a very good price when I was internet-window-shopping. Dagnabbit - I am down with the SIGness again. :wink:

She's a very sexy beast, yes she is.... And I have been real good, too....

So, I guess I have to pay the $200, and jump through the fingerprint cards, sheriff's letter, and all that extra are-we-having-fun-now paperwork, but other than that, I can't help but wonder: should I buy the thing?

Not totally sure if the SBR is worth the money? Good gun, or gimmick?

Two pennies for your thoughts? Ullie, you wise old fox, whadda ya think?
 

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If you've got the cash, I'd go for it. I recommend going the trust route rather than as an individual when filling out your form 1. Going this route, you don't need CLEO signature or fingerprint cards, and it speeds up the process significantly. Just google 'form 1 trust' for info.

You'll also want to know how your SBR will perform compared to a 16" carbine. The below is copied from an earlier post of mine:

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The info below is from my own measurements, use of a ballistics calculator, and research using respected sources. I'm no expert, but the info below has helped me to understand the performance differences of my SBR. The numbers below presume the use of M193 ammo. Other ammo will likely perform differently, but generally be in the same ball park.

Muzzle velocity with a 16" barrel is ~3165 fps. Muzzle velocity with a 10" barrel is ~2865 fps. There is approximately a 300 fps drop in velocity going from a 16" to a 10" barrel. After leaving the barrel and stabilizing, a bullet fired from a 10" barrel will behave very much like a bullet fired from a 16" barrel that has already traveled ~80 yards.

Bullet spin rate is also effected by barrel length: ~326,000 RPM with a 16" barrel compared to ~295,000 RPM with a 10" barrel. This lower RPM from a 10" barrel is approximately what you would get from a 16" barrel with a twist rate of 1:7.75 to 1:8. Choose your ammo based on this lower 'calculated' twist rate and lower muzzle velocity.

If you are zeroed at 50 yards, your POI will be will be the following:

25 yards = 1.1" low
50 yards = POA
75 yards = 0.8" high
100 yards = 1.3" high

The effects of windage on a bullet fired from a 10" barrel is about 15% greater than from a 16" barrel. At 100 yards with a 20 MPH wind at 3:00, a 16" barrel will hit 2.2" left, and a 10" barrel will hit 2.6" left.

My experience is that I get my best groups with 62gr ammo, followed by 55gr, and 75gr comes in with the largest groups (even with match ammo). The lower spin rate at the muzzle is likely the biggest factor for this.

Even though I used M193 above for my measurements/calculations, I wouldn't recommend using it in a P556 for self defense. The reason is that he primary wounding mechanism with M193 ammo is fragmentation, which is relative to velocity. For M193 (and most ball ammo), fragmentation doesn't occur properly when impact velocity drops below 2700 fps. When fired from a 10" barrel, velocity drops below 2700 fps at just 47 yards. If you want to reach out further, you need to use soft tip or hollow point rounds that don't rely on fragmentation and maintain their wounding potential at lower velocities. The P556/SBR is really best suited for close quarters where distance isn't as important as reduced size and maneuverability.

Anyway, hope this helps :)

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/AmmoOracle_061808.pdf
 

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Sig556 Swat Pistol will become an SBR

I too, just orderd one at $1677 (out the door) and will be doing the SBR route with a trust.
 

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Clyde said:
Okay, I must have contracted spring fever or something. I already own three SIG 556s (I know, I know -- there appears to be no cure, but I like it...). 8)

She's a very sexy beast, yes she is.... And I have been real good, too....

So, I guess I have to pay the $200, and jump through the fingerprint cards, sheriff's letter, and all that extra are-we-having-fun-now paperwork, but other than that, I can't help but wonder: should I buy the thing?

Not totally sure if the SBR is worth the money? Good gun, or gimmick?
...Clyde

...sounds like you've already kinda made up your mind... :lol: ...you already have three carbines...i suppose the next step would be an SBR... :idea:

...is it worth it... :?: i don't know...to me it's kinda a novelty...and doesn't have the range or performance of a carbine...but you already have three carbines...now...if it had a fun switch... :p

...it sure would be nice through with a set of Aurora sights... 8)...and an Aimpoint Comp M4 on her...or a low power variable like a Nightforce NXS 1-4 X 24 with the FC-2 retical...

...i suppose that's a yes then...why not ?...

...now that you've got me thinking about it... i want one too... :?

...thanks Clyde... :roll:

...it's a SBR and doesn't have any real practicle use for most people...a gimmick ?...a little...playing on the "tactical cool factor"...it all comes down to what you want...if you can afford it and really like one...then yes...i would buy one...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the excellent input, men! Still mulling it over - I may have to go see it in person, but that is always dangerous -- you handle a gun long enough, pretty soon it starts calling you daddy and wants to be adopted!

It is a really cool looking gun, though - catches your eye immediately....

Jalso, thanks for the tip on setting up the trust - have to review that option. And many thanks for the ballistics analysis - very good information!

Ullie, I'm actually still on the fence -- and thanks for the humor - usually the shoe is on the other foot - you almost always end up getting me to spend my gun money - I see you may have come down with the SIGness too!

I know a police officer who works for Protective Services - the gun guys who guard the State Capitol and Governor - works with a German Sheperd that (surprise) responds to German commands - he has a Colt M4 Commando - full auto -- thing is totally bad ass. Got me thinking....

BTW, he tells a really funny story about chasing a trespassing suspect -- he released and commanded the dog by saying "Stellen!" {German for bite!} -- the bad guy thought it was the dog's name, so he starts looking back at the dog shouting "Stellen, stellen" -- the look on the dog's face was like "be right with you, in just a moment"! K-9 dog takes the guy down hard, and he is still screaming "Stellen" so the dog keeps right on biting him....what a dumbass!

May have to take a ride now and see that 556 SBR up close...poll seems unanimous in favor of it so far!
 

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If I had to have one, and I do, I would rather take one of the pistols and make my own. You have less money invested and you can build it your way, just like Burger King. :lol: The last factory SBR I looked at was about a grand + more than just a pistol version. Just my Scottish, stretch a penny till you make wire, sense coming out.
I'm actually working on one now, buying all the hardware first as I get some spare change, then I will buy the least expensive pistol, strip it, and make it my own. The last pistol I found at the gun show was 980.00 and it is his regular price for now.
My only thing is, I do not believe the bullet has time to stabilize in such a short barrel at factory ammo speeds, and my "can", from what I read, won't make as much of an impression as I had hoped. Meaning it won't be as hush hush as on the carbine. But I am doing it, but for much less money. Just food for for thought. :?

PS> yes do the trust, it is easy and much less of a hassle...
 

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ullie said:
you already have three carbines...i suppose the next step would be an SBR... :idea:

...it sure would be nice through with a set of Aurora sights... 8)...and an Aimpoint Comp M4 on her...or a low power variable like a Nightforce NXS 1-4 X 24 with the FC-2 retical...
I agree with Ullie here, you've got 3 carbines already, may as well buy the SBR if you got the cash. ;)

I'm still waiting for Aurora to ship more sights..

And like the other suggestions, I recommend the Trust route, I do all my NFA that way and have my stamps back in 30-45 days every time.

Plus having a factory SIG SBR in your collection is always nice.
 

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datcha, you said you got your ATF forms in 30 - 45 days!? :shock: Was this form 1 from WV or form 4 from GA? I've read stories of trust route turn arounds as long as 12 months. I am curious because I'm waiting on a form 4 and its been about 30 days now. Thanks for you help.
 

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elits1 said:
datcha, you said you got your ATF forms in 30 - 45 days!? :shock: Was this form 1 from WV or form 4 from GA? I've read stories of trust route turn arounds as long as 12 months. I am curious because I'm waiting on a form 4 and its been about 30 days now. Thanks for you help.
Form 4.

To be honest the longest I've ever heard of anyone waiting on a Trust NFA transfer has been 90 days while the shortest time frame was 30 days.

If it's been 30 days for you then I wouldn't worry too much, you've probably got another few weeks of waiting, or sooner before it returns.

One question though, did you mail off your Form 4 and accompanying paperwork, etc. yourself or did your Class 3 send it off?

Sometimes if they send it off for you they don't send it right away but instead wait to send your paperwork in until they have a group of others to send in with yours, I've seen and heard of this being done.

I always mail off my own paperwork and have a return receipt so I know when it has been received.
 

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I sent my form 4, copy of trust and certification of citizenship form, all in duplicate myself. I did send it certified with return receipt. The return receipt came back signed and dated Feb 25. A friend in Florida sent three form 1's and average turnaround for him was 10 weeks. I'm liking the 30 - 45 day turnaround. I'll keep you posted and thanks for the info and hope :D
 
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