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Glad I have Sig 556 and not Colt AR-15 (see Sig peformance in water), just hope our troops are OK.



Any historians know if our troops guns performed in Normandy and what measure were taken to keep water out? I could only imagine a group of soldier storming the beach with Colt rifles, only to have receivers explode on them as the landed on the beach. Curious how this rifle handles wet environment of Vietnam.
 

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I'll stick to using my gas operated spear gun when shooting underwater zombies! :wink:
 

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You have more fun hobbies than anyone I know. Killing pigs on your ranch, racing go carts at 100mph, spear gun fishing, laser torches, etc.
 

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Speaking of high speed road racing, all my friends are up at Elkart Lake, Wisconsin this weekend for the National Road Racing Series @ Road America, the largest high speed track in North America and my favorite. I did not go as I paid for my youngest daughter's wedding this year, so suffering from the empty pockets syndrome..... :cry:

Anyhow, here is a 150MB WMV video of our race from 5 years ago in 2005 at Road America where I almost beat everyone before my engine detonated right at the end of the race going 115mph..... :shock: :shock: :shock:

http://www.phossil.com/thom/RoadAmerica2005.wmv


SHOCKING!!!!!! :shock: :lol: :shock:
 

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goo said:
Glad I have Sig 556 and not Colt AR-15 (see Sig peformance in water), just hope our troops are OK.



Any historians know if our troops guns performed in Normandy and what measure were taken to keep water out? I could only imagine a group of soldier storming the beach with Colt rifles, only to have receivers explode on them as the landed on the beach. Curious how this rifle handles wet environment of Vietnam.
If I recall correctly (from lessons, I wasn't there) our soldiers used various bags to protect their rifles during the landing. I'm not sure what the bags were made of, whether some sort of early plastic, rubberized canvas, etc.

http://astro.temple.edu/~gurwin/lcvp_om ... june44.jpg

You can see the covered rifles in this photo of soldiers in a landing craft
 

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I'm not sure what point this clown in a wet suit is trying to make by sitting in his garden pond (complete with plastic trim around the edges) .... what is he, some kind of garden gnome ninja? A gninja?

So if you fill the gas tube on an AR with water, it takes more than 2 seconds to drain .... and your point is .....? How many of our guys submerge their weapons and try and shoot them within 2 seconds after raising them? Iran and Afghanistan have problems with sand getting into things ,,,, we don't have so many problems with water.

In fact, the whole title of this thread is wrong. The rifle exploded because the gas tube was FULL. It was designed to have gas in it, which is compressible, and the gas port was sized accordingly. If you fill it with non compressiblke water, it will suffer from hydraulic shock and fail. It will not fail simply because it was wet, as the thread title implies, but only if you submerge it long enough to fill the gas tube, and give it less than 2 seconds to drain.

Next.
 

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I am sure that SEAL teams have gone aquatic with AR style rifles and not have had them blow up. They might have a discipline for draining out the water before firing them. Or the AR might just be able to handle a little moisture.
Troops at Normandy had bags, and some even used rubbers (yeah, the kind guys keep in their wallets) over the muzzles of their longarms. Plenty still got wet and they seem to have mostly worked pretty well.
What some guy does on an internet post ....uh huh. Right. Not saying he's faking but then, who knows what he's really up to?
 

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Wow.

Have any of you read some of the comments under that exploding AR video?

There is a $#itload of folks slamming the United State of America and directing hate towards us!

I'm willing to bet that a good effing number of them would either not be alive if the U.S.A. (our dads and grand-dads) hadn't saved their freaking fathers/grandfathers/great-grandfathers or would be speaking German or Russian if it wasn't for the United States of America.

Screw them.

:evil: Bastards!
 

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If I study the difference between any two guns, I'm sure I can come up with a contrived test that will make one fail, while mine will pass. If you raise those guns out of the water and fire right away, both will blow, because of the water in the barrel. If you wait 5 or 6 seconds, both will pass, because both will have drained water sufficiently. This test procedure had to dial in the exact amount of time where the H&K had drained enough water to survive, but the AR had not.

If I'm trying to sell my gun, I will then try to make sure the test that shows my gun a winner will be included in the evaluation - even if it is not relevant to the performance of the gun. The last time we did a beach invasion was .... in the war with Germany, and even there, from all the footage I've seen, I've never seen a single GI whose rifle was completely submerged, right up to 2 seconds before he had to shoot.

Direct gas impingement will allow a more accurate rifle than piston driven, since you are eliminating additional moving mass on the barrel. The down side is that direct impingement needs to be kept cleaner, since you are dealing with smaller and longer gas passages that could foul.

Whoever chose the M-16 platform 40 years ago was aware of this choice, and chose the direct gas system because they felt the improved accuracy was a bigger benefit than the improved reliability. Obviously, as design progress is made on both designs, the decision will get re-evaluated, but the benefit of shooting submerged rifles will hardly be the deciding point.
 

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7art said:
So if you fill the gas tube on an AR with water, it takes more than 2 seconds to drain ....

The rifle exploded because the gas tube was FULL. It was designed to have gas in it, which is compressible, and the gas port was sized accordingly. If you fill it with non compressiblke water, it will suffer from hydraulic shock and fail.
...for the record...

...water in the gas tube won't destroy the weapon...worse case...the gas tube will split if filled with water...but rare...it usually blows out and the weapon may not cycle...

...i didn't watch any vidoes...i'm on dial up...however...you compromise a M16 / M4...or any weapon...DI or otherwise...when firing it with "any" obstruction in the barrel...this includes water...
 

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...the correct way to drain "any" assualt rifle after breaking the surface...or after being submerged in water...is to slightly pull back the charging handle so that the bolt unlocks and moves slightly to the rear ...breaking the cartrage's seal with the chamber...and allowing the air to rush in as the water pours out of the barrel while pointing the muzzle downwards...

...it takes a few seconds...there's no way around it...if you fire an assualt rifle...DI or otherwise...with a significant amount of water in the barrel...you will compromise the weapon...specifically the barrel...or destroy it...

...if you need to immediately engage when breaking the surface...somebody really really really screwed up... :p
 

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Ullie,

Good points. Maybe the point they were trying to make in the video is that they both had water in the barrel, and the bolt lugs on the M-16 sheared off, while the lugs on the HK didn't. Unclear. In any event the top of the upper blew off.

As you said, it's an unrealistic scenario to engage as you come out of the water.

Art
 

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SkyPup said:
Speaking of high speed road racing, all my friends are up at Elkart Lake, Wisconsin this weekend for the National Road Racing Series @ Road America, the largest high speed track in North America and my favorite. I did not go as I paid for my youngest daughter's wedding this year, so suffering from the empty pockets syndrome..... :cry:
Road America is incredible. Back about 20-25 years ago we'd camp right across the street from the main gate for whatever race was going on that weekend.
 

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Road America is an absolutely incredible facility, for years it had been my dream to road race on that 4.2 mile technically complicated track, and it was truly enthralling my first lap around the entire course, it felt like I was in Europe at Nuremberg or LeMans...... 8)

Some of my best road racing memories are from that track.
 

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SkyPup said:
Road America is an absolutely incredible facility, for years it had been my dream to road race on that 4.2 mile technically complicated track, and it was truly enthralling my first lap around the entire course, it felt like I was in Europe at Nuremberg or LeMans...... 8)

Some of my best road racing memories are from that track.
I know what you mean. I can only imagine what it must have been like to actually drive the course. :mrgreen:

Oh and sorry ZEUS, at the time, us teenage FIBS (fucking Illinois bastards) would invade your territory! :)
 

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"The last time we did a beach invasion was .... in the war with Germany"

Actually Art, (and for any folks interested in American military history) quite a few Marines might be upset that you forgot Iwo Jima and Okinawa in Feb-June of 1945 and the Inchon landings of September 1950.
There are smaller scale beach landings since then, but those are the "biggies" since D-Day.
 
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