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Discussion Starter #1
I once saw an interview of Kalashnikov in which he said he took no inspiration from the StGw/MP-44 when designing his AK-47. He went on to say that the AK-47 functioned in a completely different manner than the StGw-44. I thought this sounded like the typical Soviet "We thought of it first" doctrine. I'm quite familiar with the AK but have never handled the StGw-44. Can anyone describe any appreciable difference in the function of these rifles? Thanks!
 

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tvchance said:
I thought this sounded like the typical Soviet "We thought of it first" doctrine.
...actually the developement of the StGw-44 was in response to the success of the Russian PPSh on the eastern front...then the ingenious Mikhail Kalashnikov went on to design and devolope the most widely produced assualt rifle ever fielded...the AK 47...there are dozens of varients that are still fielded today that are based directly upon his design...furthermore...almost all successful modern piston driven assualt rifles draw from his design in one way or another...including the Sig 55x series...the FN FNC/AK5...and a host of others...

tvchance said:
I'm quite familiar with the AK but have never handled the StGw-44. Can anyone describe any appreciable difference in the function of these rifles? Thanks!
...they are mechanically dissimilar...about the only thing they share is that they gas operated and are piston driven...your best bet is to compare the schematic drawing of an AK 47 to that of a StGw-44...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Okay... So they are both magazine fed, piston operated, automatic rifles, using a pistol grip, the recoil is mounted behind the bolt (as opposed to being mounted on the piston), they have nearly identical sights, an integral cleaning rod and an intermediate rifle round? Yeah, Kalashnikov was a real genius. :?:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The only appreciable difference I can see between the two is the tilitng block lock-up of the StGw-44's bolt. I hardly think Kalashnikov can take credit for the rotating bolt design of the AK-47. Let's not forget, starting in July of 1943, Soviet designers Nikolay Yelizarov and Paul Ryazanov were allowed to study a captured German StGw-43 and its ammunition. This study directly lead to the Soviet 7.62X39 cartridge. I'm certainly not knocking the AK-47 (Not applauding it, either). I just find it difficult to believe that Kalashnikov wasn't inspired by or even borrowed from the design of the StGw-44.
 

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From a layman's standpoint there are similarities, but when they are broken down as another poster mentioned to the actual schematics, etc the differences are large enough from an engineering and construction standpoint for them to be significant.

Technically speaking of course.

.
 

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lenardlex said:
I've always been fascinated by the stg 44.

Anyone know if the replica PTR ('ptr 44") is advertising is a quality product?
No experience with the PTR-44 but if it anything like the PTR-91 I would expect it to be as good, if not better, than the original.
 

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tvchance said:
The only appreciable difference I can see between the two is the tilitng block lock-up of the StGw-44's bolt. I hardly think Kalashnikov can take credit for the rotating bolt design of the AK-47. Let's not forget, starting in July of 1943, Soviet designers Nikolay Yelizarov and Paul Ryazanov were allowed to study a captured German StGw-43 and its ammunition. This study directly lead to the Soviet 7.62X39 cartridge. I'm certainly not knocking the AK-47 (Not applauding it, either). I just find it difficult to believe that Kalashnikov wasn't inspired by or even borrowed from the design of the StGw-44.


I seem to recall reading Kalashnikov got the idea for the rotating bolt from the M 1 Garand.
 

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Wow will have to keep track of the replica that would be a neat toy. Probably will be close to 2K though.
Our State Crime Lab had one in there armory would get permission to go in a fondle it on occasion. Heavy well made weapon. Dont know about the current ammo for the replica who makes it?
 

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This germany company was where I first saw the stg 44 replica ptr seems to have picked up(as far as I can tell).
http://www.hza-kulmbach.de/index.php?op ... 61&lang=en

I know for years they were trying to find a way to import to the US. I'm not sure how the transition occurred as far 922 regulations and location of manufacture. The price was over 3k US on the ones sold in Canada.

Part of me wishes they'd make it in 7.62x39 for cost/convenience. But I guess if I were to bite the bullet and pay large bucks for a replica I'd just have to accept the fact I'd be paying big on ammo too.
 

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TommyGunn said:
tvchance said:
The only appreciable difference I can see between the two is the tilitng block lock-up of the StGw-44's bolt. I hardly think Kalashnikov can take credit for the rotating bolt design of the AK-47. Let's not forget, starting in July of 1943, Soviet designers Nikolay Yelizarov and Paul Ryazanov were allowed to study a captured German StGw-43 and its ammunition. This study directly lead to the Soviet 7.62X39 cartridge. I'm certainly not knocking the AK-47 (Not applauding it, either). I just find it difficult to believe that Kalashnikov wasn't inspired by or even borrowed from the design of the StGw-44.


I seem to recall reading Kalashnikov got the idea for the rotating bolt from the M 1 Garand.


...the Kalashnikov is what it is...why is there this need in some people to deny credit where credit is due...and the credit belongs to Mikhail Kalashnikov...he designed it...it was developed and put into production...and the rest is history...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I guess my point is that Kalashnikov's denying that the StGw44 had anything to do with his design is highly suspect (At least in my opinion).
 

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ullie said:
TommyGunn said:
tvchance said:
The only appreciable difference I can see between the two is the tilitng block lock-up of the StGw-44's bolt. I hardly think Kalashnikov can take credit for the rotating bolt design of the AK-47. Let's not forget, starting in July of 1943, Soviet designers Nikolay Yelizarov and Paul Ryazanov were allowed to study a captured German StGw-43 and its ammunition. This study directly lead to the Soviet 7.62X39 cartridge. I'm certainly not knocking the AK-47 (Not applauding it, either). I just find it difficult to believe that Kalashnikov wasn't inspired by or even borrowed from the design of the StGw-44.


I seem to recall reading Kalashnikov got the idea for the rotating bolt from the M 1 Garand.


...the Kalashnikov is what it is...why is there this need in some people to deny credit where credit is due...and the credit belongs to Mikhail Kalashnikov...he designed it...it was developed and put into production...and the rest is history...


I wasn't "denying" anyone credit. The M1 Carbine used a rotating bolt like the Garand. The Ruger Mini 14 and 30 also used a rotating bolt like the Garand. Is that to say David Marshall Williams or Bill Ruger, or others deserve any less respect or credit? And, I note sardonically, a certain rifle that is popular on this websight uses a rotating bolt .....
"Form follows function," as has been said, and until the Star Trek Phaser is invented there will be certain commonalities between many firearms.
Kalashnikov did an excellent job on the AK and a huge number of soldiers, militias, mercenaries, and countries across the world agree; the AK is a swell rifle with which to equip their men.
 

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TommyGunn said:
Kalashnikov did an excellent job on the AK and a huge number of soldiers, militias, mercenaries, and countries across the world agree
...he sure did...and they sure do !... :wink:
 

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I know I want both of them. The STG44 was the first modern combat rifle fielded, and the AK marched around the world as Kalashnikov said.

 

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Yeah I would have to agree. I carry one over here everyday and it has not failed or faultered.
 
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