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I wonder sometimes about optics and the break point for diminishing marginal return. I have a Burris on my Thompson Encore and I have to say that I am very happy with the quality, but I will also say that I looked through some Swarovski optics before I bought it and I don't recommend doing that. The image is clearly better; is it 6-8 times better based upon the cost, certainly not, but if you have the money and want the best then it does make a difference. Having said that I think that the rest of the glass I considered was about 90-95% of the performance of the Swarovski at far less money.

So while more absolutely gets you more I think you reach a certain point where a LOT more money only gets you a little more in performance. After reading the torture test that one of the guys at AR15.com put the Vortex Sparc through, I have to say it is something that I am going to look at in the very near future.
 

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Ullie I have to agree with everything you said, optics are certainly more than just the glass you see through, but it is the easiest way to readily begin assessment.

If I were in a situation such as the Middle East, you can bet that money would be no consideration in my choice. But I am not there and money is a factor. I love my Sig, but truthfully it is only consistently at best a minute of angle firearm, at least in my hands so I have to balance its capabilities with mine and the optic, as you pointed out.

I have often been told that your optic should cost as much as your rifle, and while I understand that thought process, I think to some extent that statement is no longer as accurate as it once was. Take for example the Winchester Model 70. It is 74 years old and still probably as accurate a production rifle you can buy out of the box, with a price to reflect that quality, but it has not fundamentally changed in the past seven decades. Optic technology on the other hand has advanced dramatically and I think that the quality of the mid priced optics has dramatically closed the gap to the high end stuff. Please don't think that I am trying to compare the gun show stuff to something like Leupold, I would never try to say that, but companies such as Burris, and I only use them as an example since it is the only one I am readily familiar, I am sure there are others I am not aware of, make a very good optic, that is probably more capable than a lot of the shooters that purchase them. I know from personal experience that my Encore/Burris combination is more capable than I am when I watched a gentleman coax it to do things I was not capable of, but I am still working at getting better.

I was very close to dropping the coin on the Eotech XPS, but man it looks like someone put a shoe box on top of my rifle and I just don't like it, conversely the Fastfire is a little to small and I am not sure I can acquire sight picture quickly enough with it, I am wondering if the Sparc will be the same way.

I would love the option of a magnified optic but also like reflex sights. I am so confused as to be paralyzed into activity :roll: I am getting some good iron sights and I will continue the search for my perfect or nearly so, optic. I know whatever I choose will be something of a compromise but how much is the question. If I could find the 'perfect' optic I would gladly spend a lot of money for it, but I don't know what that is yet so it is sort of a moot point I guess.

Clyde I have to agree about the Nikon binoculars but I have always used Fujinon instead of Leupold, they tend to be very rugged and easily repaired. If they still made rifle scopes I would probably own one but from what I can tell they stopped production at some point in the past.
 

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ullie said:
...kutter

...it sounds to me that you want to be able to have relatively rapid target acqusition at close quarters...while still being able to shoot accurately at longer ranges...for this type of application...i would recomend going with a low power variable scope with an illuminated reticle...one that can power down to as close to 1 X in "actual" magnification...
ullie

That is precisely what I am looking for. I know that some on here have made use of the Burris tactical 1-4 power scope, and it seems like a good scope, but I would really like something with a larger sight picture as I am somewhat concerned about target acquisition with something that small, but admittedly I have not actually been able to find one too look through it to confirm or debunk my concerns

I was hopeful of the Burris 332 model, but it seems to have been plagued with problems also it does not have adjustable magnification so I wonder if the 3X magnification will be a hindrance in tight situations

After reading a review on ar15.com, I am going to take a look at the new Vortex Sparc. While it too is a compromise, it may come the closest to what I am looking for

Why cant someone simply make a 1-6 power optic with a fair size sight picture, lighted ballistic reticle, great light gathering ability and rock solid optics, oh yeah, and can they do it for about $500, ok, I am dreaming I admit it, but in my world that would be what I would want, back to reality now
 

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ullie

I was looking very hard at the Eotech XPS before I just decided that I hated how large it was on top of my rifle. I now that sounds absurd, but it's just the way I am. So I would certainly be prepared to spend the $500 or so one of those cost for something that is close to what I want.

I suppose I use sight picture in an attempt to be less confusing since with a reflex sight, all of your eyesight is technically the field of view, but my only concern is what I see through the sight when I am trying to acquire a target so I was trying to express that. It seems that I failed in that attempt.

I understand your misgivings about the Burris, they certainly did not help themselves any by releasing a product with all the problems it has and while they seem to correcting some of them, I agree that it is still not something I am interested in trying out. However I wonder why you would say that about the Sparc, all of the reviews I have read have been positive, have you heard something other than that? Admittedly it has not been out long, unless of course you consider that it really is just a Strikefire with excess stuff removed and only one color reticle. I certainly don't consider it to be the equal of the Aimpoint it emulates, but it seems for now at least to be a very good sight for the money.
 

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TommyGunn said:
Is there something about the Burris AR-332 that is bad?

I mean, is it a product with a lot of complaints against it (like a canted reticle)? Is Burris making cheesy products?
I would think it would go well with a Sig 556 or an AR.
The canted reticle is a problem, but I also read about some problems with the mount. Some of them where to wide causing the entire sight to not center, as well as having problems with the reticle, not a good combination. I am not trying to bash on Burris, I own one of their scopes on my Encore and I like it very much, I just think that they did not get the bugs out before they released it and now, pardon the pun, I am gun shy of it.
 

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Well, if money were no object I found the optic I would buy:

http://www.valdada.com/product/6928a7e3 ... 2cd81.aspx

Even though it goes straight from 1-4 magnification with no in between it is as close as anything I have found to what I want, just have to find a way to come up with the 1300 bones.

ullie I did have one quick question for you, assuming that I don't decide to get the Pitbull, have you heard anything about Sightron? Reviews seem pretty good, I was looking at this one:

http://www.sightronriflescopes.net/sigh ... eye-relief
 
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