[Aaron]

I've been wanting a Trijicon ACOG for years now and I might be close to getting one. I know that I want a 4x model, duel illumination, and a green reticle. As far as reticle pattern, I'm undecided between crosshair or chevron.
Which pattern would you go with?

How does this sight do in close quarters? Yes, I know it won't perform as well as an Aimpoint CompM3/4. I've heard of the Bindon Aiming Concept...how does that concept work in CQB in real life?

Lastly, where on the rifle to you mount the ACOG? As far as it can go back? I know the eye relief is only 1.5 inches. That doesn't sound like a lot.

 

[MeridianNW]

Tough call Aaron, reticle choice is a very personal matter. And IMO it is one of the primary factors in scope choice. Of course the rifle will influence the intended use significantly too.

I've been considering Acogs also, but I'm still studying. With no other info to go on, and speaking for myself, I would go with the crosshair reticle.

I think on these type of scopes (multi-purpose) the buyer should decide 'which side of CQB' is the primary purpose of your intended use. In other words, I tend to lean towards a longer range engagement from cover. That means crosshairs for me. If the primary use is clearing buildings, the chevron would win, again speaking for myself. The bright thick reticle draws your attention quickly and would help compensate with both eyes open and one image being magnified.

It's takes a while to learn the chevron reticle, and the Acog's BDC reticle, for that matter. (Straight crosshairs do not have a learning curve, just point and shoot.) I've not used them so I don't know if I'd like them or not, but from my research, once you learn them, they are quite fast to use. Guys tend to either like them or dislike them, with not a lot of neutral opinions out there.

There are lots of opinions out there, this is just my 2¢ worth.

 

[Zeus]

IMO the Aimpoint or EoTech is the way to go from CQB out to 100m. The ACOG was never intended to be strictly a CQB optic but rather engage out to 300m, which before the Iraq war was the most frequent distance of engagements. I would love to have an ACOG also but for CQB there are better choices available.

 

[scoom]

If the primary use is clearing buildings, the chevron would win, again speaking for myself. The bright thick reticle draws your attention quickly and would help compensate with both eyes open and one image being magnified.

You wont use a 4x ACOG to clear buildings. Two eyes and a laser would be more beneficial. Meridian is probably thinking of an EOTECH reticle.. which primary use is just that....

Buy the scope for its primary intended use.. if you want multi-use, there a very good 1x4 QCB scopes.

 

[samnev]

ACOG Placement

You mount the ACOG as far back as you can. Be aware the 1.5 eye relief takes some getting use to. I like the chevron over the cross hair. My favorite ACOG is the TA31F with a red chevron. Can be used on 14.5 "or 16" barreels where the TA31RCOM4 is calibrated for the 14.5" barrels and the 855 round.

 

[MeridianNW]

... You wont use a 4x ACOG to clear buildings. Two eyes and a laser would be more beneficial. Meridian is probably thinking of an EOTECH reticle.. which primary use is just that....

No I wasn't, although I agree that an Eotech would be a better scope for clearing buildings. I was staying within his choice parameter of the two Acog reticles he asked about.

I agree, the intended use should always guide the selection process. I think the Acogs are often presented as a multi-purpose scope, with one of those intended uses being CQB. (I think even some of the Acog fans might chooe a different optic for a CQB only mission, but not all of them. As I said, most either love them or dislike them.)

Even if the intended use is longer range, I still would usually avoid a BDC reticle, unless it matches your load and you don't change ammo. But again, with the Acogs, I think their 'crosshair' options are all BDC. Mil reticles offer more utility.

 

[scoom]

... You wont use a 4x ACOG to clear buildings. Two eyes and a laser would be more beneficial. Meridian is probably thinking of an EOTECH reticle.. which primary use is just that....

No I wasn't, although I agree that an Eotech would be a better scope for clearing buildings. I was staying within his choice parameter of the two Acog reticles he asked about.

I agree, the intended use should always guide the selection process. I think the Acogs are often presented as a multi-purpose scope, with one of those intended uses being CQB. (I think even some of the Acog fans might chooe a different optic for a CQB only mission, but not all of them. As I said, most either love them or dislike them.)

Even if the intended use is longer range, I still would usually avoid a BDC reticle, unless it matches your load and you don't change ammo. But again, with the Acogs, I think their 'crosshair' options are all BDC. Mil reticles offer more utility.

fair enough, honestly, you don't have time unless you are behind cover...

 

[MeridianNW]

Yep, I've been slumming a lot over at SnipersHide researching optic choices... so I got long range on the brain! :lol:

 

[Aaron]

I actually think an Aimpoint CompM4s would be better for me. I forgot to mention that I will be using this for Three Gun in IDPA. We shoot out to 200 yards max. We also shoot 15 feet.

How will the red dot do at 200 yards?

 

[Clyde]

Aimpoints are 2MOA or 4MOA, so at 200 yards you're looking at 4 to 8 inches.

Better with a 3x magnifier.

Here is an ACOG 4x with a Docter mini-red-dot-sight (4MOA) on top of one of my SCARs:

Close-up:

Aimpoint on my Springfield Armory SOCOM II:

Aimpoint and EOTechs have unlimited eye relief, so you can mount them just about anywhere.

 

[scoom]

I actually think an Aimpoint CompM4s would be better for me. I forgot to mention that I will be using this for Three Gun in IDPA. We shoot out to 200 yards max. We also shoot 15 feet.

How will the red dot do at 200 yards?

Let me just say this... the shooter, the rifle, & the ammo will make more of a difference than a non-magnified scope at 200. A CompM4s is made to withstand the rigors of war and is designed for QCB. That's why you buy it, consistent, rugged, battery life. If my life depended on it, it would be part of my kit. If you are going to the range to shoot 15-200yds and want to keep it on paper, IMO, save $400+, and buy a nice Leupold Mark AR 1.5-4x magnified scope, or similar, Its perfect for that.

 

[scoom]

Best QCB/Medium Range Distance money can buy:

$1200: NightForce 1-4x24 NXS Compact Illuminated Reticle Riflescope
$900: Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T 1.3x14mm Close Quarter/Tactical Rifle

I omitted the Elcan Spectre/DR ($1800) and Schmidt & Bender Flash Dot ($2250) because at those prices, why bother to even ask..

 

[Muad-dib]

I've got the Trijicon TA31RCO-M4CP http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=481&back_row=4&categoryID=3

I think this sight's strong points begin about 50m. It could actually be used for clearing a room. Once you get used to the Bindon aiming concept (it did take me a few range sessions) it works great. At close range when the target is magnified your non firing eye simply sees the target unmagnified with the reticle superimposed on it. At long range I still close my non-shooting eye but you can leave them both open and your non-firing eye will simply see a superimposed image of the magnified target and reticle. It is great for reflexive fire since you can get on target very quickly and then close one eye to get a better sight picture.

Mine mounts fine but you will not be able to mount the Sig diopter sight, at least unless you want to really run your scope forward on the rail. You can buy specially made eyecups from Trijicon, that look like the ones on Russian Dragunovs and other Russian scopes, that give you the exact eye relief distance.

Is it better at less than 50m than the red dots? Probably not but it is not useless, or even bad, it is simply not as instinctive and has a higher learning curve at these ranges. Also, no batteries (admittedly, the battery life of the red dots is phenomenal) and if you buy magnifiers and quick-flip mounts for red dots they can quickly rival or exceed the price tag for an ACOG. I got mine used (I did check the serial number with Trijicon first) for less than $900 on eBay so it is possible to find them at bargains.

Have you thought of the Vortex Sparc?http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-sparc-red-dot-scope It comes with a 3x magnifier. There are some pretty good reviews of it on the net. Look for the guy on arf.com who did a torture test on it. I just might get one to have.

 

[Destructo6]

The crosshair reticle is not BAC compatible. The chevron and triangle (doughnut, too?) reticles are the BAC type.

You're going to be a little slower up close with a 4x vs a 1x dot and if you're only going out to 200 yards, I don't know if you'll gain much with the 4x.

This is coming from a guy who runs a 3.5x ACOG on his work gun (after trying out 2x Acog, Eotech w 3x magnifier, Elcan Specter DR and OS3). Of the others, my favorite was the Eotech and I often wonder if I should go back.