Sig as reliable as ak and accuret as an m4 or neither?

Discussion in '556 Discussions' started by alfred10, Sep 25, 2010.

  1. alfred10

    alfred10 New Member

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    I love my AR for what it is a light weight, fast, effective weapons system. It would not be my first choice for a long term dirty use rifle.I want to add a reliable weapon that runs like an AK but has better accuracy.

    How close would a Sig 556 full size 16 inch be to a 16 or 14.5 inch m4 in accuracy and effective range?

    How would the sig compare to an ak in terms of reliability? Can I get the best of both worlds or should I stick with an AR? I will shoot my ar no matter what but for a SHTF/ woods hiking gun I want something long term reliable.

    I was worried the sig would be less accuret than the m4 and not as reliable as the ak. Is it a combo or a jack of both trades that masters neither?

    My other big concern is that the sig wont suppress nearly as well as an m4.... Please lead me in the right direction.
  2. dtom29

    dtom29 Member

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    I have multiple AK's (9), 2 AR's, and My Son and I have 2 556s. I read the different threads here and on other forums about poor triggers, poor accuracy, etc. I really have to wonder what these guys are talking about. The triggers on both of the 556s are ten times better than my AR's, they are the sweetest triggers I have ever found on this type of rifle. Both are every bit as accurate as the AR's when you take the time to find the ammo they like. If you plan on running wolf then find another platform. As far as reliable...I doubt you can find a platform in 5.56 that is more reliable. They just keep running and running. Mine has just short of 1000 rounds through it with out a cleaning (just a few drops of oil every now and then) and its still running fine, never a failure of any kind. I have to add that of all the AK's I have the accuracy problems are largly ammo related. When your shooting cheap/surplus you can't expect MOA. Now remember, these are not bolt action rifles, they are battle rifles. If you are expecting MOA you will be disappointed. It's been my experence that if you are doing your part you can get 2-3 MOA out of them with no problem, and with the right combo of ammo and shooter 1.5 MOA. Just be realistic in your expections. Don't fall for the internet BS of "my M4gery will out shoot your Sig at 600 yds". Who cares...in the real world you're not going to be shooting anybody at 600 yds. Personally, thats what I have a Rem.700 in 308 for. JMO....
  3. Constructor

    Constructor New Member

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    Stick with your AR, AKs don't have plastic parts that break.

    AR's are the most accurate semi-auto made
  4. samnev

    samnev New Member

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    Reliable, yes. Accurate, no!
  5. dl5treez

    dl5treez Member

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    Just my humble no mind opinion, but my 556 goes bang when I pull the trigger and hits in an acceptable area of where I'm aiming. If you're concerned about punching paper and making cloverleaves in a SHTF situation, let me know where you're holing up so I can avoid the area entirely and stay alive....well, at least until the zombie banditos getcha then I'll move in and gather up all your crap.

    In a SHTF situation I would trust my 556, but it's not my preferred SHTF firearm.

    Neither is an AR for the record.
  6. rainman74

    rainman74 Member

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    The Sig is as reliable as they come and can be very accurate. Mine likes the heaver bullets, 69 gr and up. It shoots 1 moa or better with 75 gr bullets and 3 moa with 55 gr bullets. I don't know first-hand but I have heard the sig does ont suppress as well as the AR's do.
  7. TexSabre

    TexSabre New Member

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    I agree with dtom. Reliable, absolutely accurate with the right ammo. I have had issues with accuracy and wasn't able to figure out why but lately she has been right on. I can't get 3" with 55gr but I do get sub 1" with 75gr. I too like the trigger.

    I think the AR is more accurate but only slightly and the Sig will still be slightly less accurate long after the AR gum's up or quits altogether.
  8. alfred10

    alfred10 New Member

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    Why wouldnt a Sig 556 be your first choice?
  9. Gary_P

    Gary_P New Member

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    probably has a Beltfed under the bed :D
  10. hylander

    hylander New Member

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    Why in the world would you say the Sig 556 is reliable but not accurate? Please back up this statement. I have found it to be very reliable and very accurate. With the right ammo, the Sig will perform admirably well in accuracy. Put a scope on it, and you have a rifle that is simply amazing.
  11. tvchance

    tvchance New Member

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    I would certainly say that the SIG is as reliable as the AK and thanks, at least in part, to its longer sight radius, more accurate than the AK. With the right ammo, the SIG 556 can be very accurate, certainly more accurate than it needs to be for its designed purpose (A combat/tactical rifle). With its direct gas impingement system, the AR would probably get the "Accuracy Nod." But we're talking about a very minor difference... A difference that most shooters would not be able to appreciate. Neither design would make a top-end sniper rifle... They just weren't designed for this. For me, I want "serviceable accuracy" and the reliability of an anvil. The most accurate rifle in the world is only a club if it malfunctions. I do like the AR and, given routine cleaning and maintenance, it is a fine weapon. But, for me, SIG has a significant edge over the AR in reliability. Even when compared to some of the newer, piston-driven AR's, the SIG seems to be a little more rugged. The short-stroke piston design of some of the newer AR's seems to be fragile when compared to the beefier (And, yes, heavier) long-stroke piston of the SIG. I have heard of some of the AR's suffering from broken operating rods. I have never heard of this with a SIG.
  12. tvchance

    tvchance New Member

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    By the way, I have shot very close MOA groups with 60 Gr. ammo. Haven't shot anything heavier but would really like to try it.
  13. dtom29

    dtom29 Member

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    I COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER...This is a battle rifle, not a sniper rifle. I hear the "at 600 yds" so often, and that is just not realistic. The 556 is such a great rifle at realistic ranges (like out to 300yds) and will still do the job on a man size target at 600. There are a lot of Internet shooters making moa at 600 to 1000...as opposed to real life. The shame of it is the "new to the Sig" shooters think this is real life and there is something wrong with their rifle if they can't shoot flys at 1000 yds.
  14. samnev

    samnev New Member

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    Reliable because it goes bang everytime I pull the trigger. In my case it will only shoot decent groups ( 1.25-1.5") with 52 grain SMK's with 26.2 grains of 748. I've tried literally every bullet weight (53 grain Sierra match, 55 grain Hornady's, 60 grain hornady spire point HP's, 69 grain SMK's all with various powderasand loads. as well as M855's, Federal 69 & 77 gain GMM and it will not shoot groups @ 100 yards under 3". despite the 1:7 twist (varified) My 6920 aand SCAR will shoot anywhere between 1 MOA to 1.75 MOA with the same loads. A number of shooters at my club are also having similar accuracy problems. IMO a $1600 rifle should be able to do better than most of the 556's I have seen.
  15. hylander

    hylander New Member

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    The 556 will shoot 1 MOA with 75gr @ 100 yards. It will definately shoot better than 3 MOA with the right ammo. Are there more accurate rifles out there, sure, but it gets the job done.
  16. SkyPup

    SkyPup Active Member

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    Their accuracy simply sux, look at this, ten shots @ 100 yards with a nonmagnified Eotech using my 75 grain Hornady BTHP reloads without a rest or bipod, just laying prone:

    [​IMG]

    I would have expected all ten shots in the same hole if I didn't have such bad astigmatism.... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

    :mrgreen:
  17. hylander

    hylander New Member

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    Hahaha. You are such a horrible shot. I would also have expected the same hole from you!
  18. gstaylorg

    gstaylorg New Member

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    Here are some range data for one of my Sig 556 SWAT SWATs:

    [​IMG]

    These groups were shot using a Nightforce 3.5-15x50 NXS scope and a Lead Sled Solo benchrest. The muzzle velocity data was taken at 10' from the muzzle with a Chrony Beta and is the mean +/- std deviation from 10-shot strings. I recently tested the exact same ammo under virtually identical conditions for my second Sig 556 SWAT (not shown). There were some minor variations between the two rifles with a couple of the ammos tested, but overall, they shot essentially the same. Which is to say, under ideal conditions with the right ammo, they are about 2.0-2.5 MOA rifles. I should also point out that this was unlikely to be the driver; I have a 556 DMR that I can consistently group sub-MOA with the exact same scope/benchrest.

    I have read a few posts on various sites where people claimed their 556s were MOA or slightly under. However, I have also read MANY posts where people had results similar to those shown above (ie. accuracy in the 2-3 MOA range). My experience with two virtually identical 556s is in favor of the latter of these claims. For what it's worth, I am satisfied with this level of accuracy. I did not buy these weapons to drive nails at 600 yds and anyone that does is likely going to be very dissatisfied. IMO, these are battle rifles and I have them set up with Nightforce 1-4x24 NXS scopes.

    Now, would I complain if they really were MOA or sub-MOA? Of course not. But I typically shoot these weapons from CQB out to no more than around 300 yds. Which basically means I can get most of my rounds within a ~6" circle at that distance. At 50 yd or closer, I can routinely blow a quarter-sized hole in a target with 20 rounds. That is more than sufficient for my purposes and enjoyment when shooting them. Could I hit a torso-sized target at 600 yd? Maybe, maybe not. A lot would depend on the ammo and conditions, but I really didn't buy these rifles for that purpose, so IMO it doesn't matter. If you want a nail driver, get something else. If you want an absolutely dead-nuts reliable 5.56 semi-automatic weapon that is going to work every time you pull the trigger and and have reasonable accuracy, the Sig will do a fine job. I know there are a lot of ARs that may have better accuracy. But personally, I just happen to be a big fan of the Sig gas piston system, and I really don't like cleaning any more than I have to, so Sig was the way to go for me.
  19. SkyPup

    SkyPup Active Member

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    I shot this target with my other SIG 556 with a Burris 1-4X XTR scope on it set on 4x @ 100 yards with no bipod or rest using the same ammo as the other target for my other SIG 556:

    [​IMG]

    Both of my SIG 556s shoot better than I do.... :mrgreen:
  20. gstaylorg

    gstaylorg New Member

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    Skypup, is that why you have those mags that hold like 782 rounds? (LOL) Seriously, as far as I'm concerned, your grouping would consistently ruin some bad guy's entire day. Or utterly perforate any zombies that might be in the neighborhood. I'm perfectly satisfied with my 2-ish MOA 556s. I have lots of fun with them at the range. When I want to shoot nickel-sized groups at 100 yd, or get out well past 300, I take the DMR. Besides which, how many ARs allow you to establish an effective 2 o'clock defensive perimeter by throwing brass 30 ft? Anyhow, nice pics, thanks for sharing!

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